Prints from Lab came back much darker

[MHalloran]

Damien.....I sent some of my work to the printer, and they came back much darker than my calibrated monitor. I am sure it's something I did wrong. I used their profile to soft proof...looked great....I have a feeling my monitor is too bright, but it is calibrated by a spyder 4 model.  The prints looked correct on many different monitor screens because I emailed them to my family in different area's of the country so they could choose.  I should have uploaded it to the Raw Deluxe class.....man I've been traveling all over the country with no laptop!  I'm gonna take a chance and upload the file.  

 

[Damien Symonds]

Have you got out the prints you used to check your calibration?  Do they still match, or is the screen brighter than them now too?

[MHalloran]

The screen is about 2 stops or so brighter...  ?

[MHalloran]

AND....I checked my brightness setting on the monitor it’s at 75%....

Everything looks so good on the monitor and on websites including social media photographs nothing looks washed out or overly bright.   I’m using the suggested Firefox as well.

[Damien Symonds]

1 hour ago, MHalloran said:

The screen is about 2 stops or so brighter...  ?

Right.  So you're not calibrated at all.  Calibrate again.

[MHalloran]

I will, but I don't quite understand how the actual file looks proper on other laptops and viewing online with other various monitors......THAT being said, the lab I used comes highly recommended, and they even suggested the test prints to compare to the calibrated monitor.....which is exactly what you teach.  I've done other prints, not in a while....and they matched...how my monitor could become that bright is a conundrum....."ive been readin"......to me.

[Damien Symonds]

7 minutes ago, MHalloran said:

I will, but I don't quite understand how the actual file looks proper on other laptops and viewing online with other various monitors

Online and other monitors are meaningless.  ONLY the print match matters.

8 minutes ago, MHalloran said:

I've done other prints, not in a while....and they matched

Do you still have them?

[MHalloran]

2 minutes ago, Damien Symonds said:

Online and other monitors are meaningless.  ONLY the print match matters.

Do you still have them?

They are hanging on walls that are not in my house.....I do have a few.  I should dig them out, and see how they match.  I think I am ready to get a newer calibration device, since I have the Spyder 4....and it's so light sensitive......and doesn't change the screen brightness I believe.  Do you have a recommendation? 

[Damien Symonds]

https://www.damiensymonds.net/what2buy_cal.html

[MHalloran]

I am following the calibration directions that you have for Datacolor Spyder 4 Elite, which is my calibration unit.  Of course I have some prints that I have made from this computer...and am matching them in brightness.....when I match the print to the brightness, it has me all the way to zero.   Should I be concerned?  I will continue with the calibration. 

 

[Damien Symonds]

Zero is fine.  It's not common, but it's not unheard-of either.

Does zero give you a print match?

[MHalloran]

Yes it does....so I think this means my previous edits made recently may need to be revisited because of the prints coming darker....I may be getting ahead of myself, but that seems to reason.  Your tutorial is spot on......the monitor seems really dark.

 

 

[Damien Symonds]

Yes.  You think the prints came back dark, but actually the prints came back correct. Short of a lab cock-up, which is rare, prints are ALWAYS correct.  The disparity is because your screen was too bright.

[MHalloran]

The lab is very good....and they really have all the information available to customers you suggest in your articles.

In fact they are reprinting for free, adding 2 stops in brightness, since I chose no color correction....and suggested that I do test prints, with re-calibration.

[Damien Symonds]

7 minutes ago, MHalloran said:

and suggested that I do test prints, with re-calibration.

Yes, and make sure they DON'T do colour correction on them.

[MHalloran]

I just finished my re-calibration with the Datacolor Spyder4Elite.  Now I remember what happened before....which made my screen bright.  During the recalibration there was a panel that popped up and it said this.....  "Adjust the brightness control until the current value is within 4% of the target value-- target 120.0 cd/m^2"

I did this, and that brought the brightness setting up to 60 percent....and a target of 114.0 cd/m^2

When I followed through, the calibration shows 100 % RGB matching, and very good color....but the existing screen no longer matches the print. 

[MHalloran]

Which I mean the colors match great!  But, the screen is still brighter than the print.  The edited print, looks great to my eye's, on this monitor.

So I must be doing something wrong. 

[Damien Symonds]

No, you have to ignore that 120 nonsense.  I don't know why they persist with that!

I'm so sorry I don't have instructions for the 4 Elite.  Have you tried following my instructions for the 5 Elite?  They'll be in the ballpark.

[MHalloran]

I’ll give it shot tomorrow...Thank you for the help...then maybe I can post properly in the Raw Deluxe area...maybe you aren’t seeing what I see in the editing department..

[MHalloran]

Hi Damien,  I did re-calibrate using the Spyder5elite instructions....which included the 120 - 80 brightness settings on the monitor.  So I did a total full RECal.....my brightness had to be set to zero to match the current print that I just received with no color correction.  Once I did the recal, I found when getting to match the target of 80.0 cd/m^2----I had to move up to 16 percent brightness.  I found when I finished the calibration, they didn't match brightness wise.  The color has always been perfect, but now going through the different calibrations, and reading the lab very through support pages then it's simply the settings of the brightness.     I don't find my office too dark, really.....maybe there is some kind of light calibration reader so that I can see if I am in the range of what the normal light should be in my office....I mean the walls are Revolutionary RED......

I moved on the the following links after the Spyder5Elite page, brightness problems, color correct, and I completely understand your suggestions on how to match the print....that would be bringing down the reading on the calibration below 80.....and you then suggesting I should check the light in my office first to make sure I have enough.  I got out a spotlight that I do for light painting, and shined it on the print....when I do that, it looks pretty good....the the flecks of gold, and the bright sand then shines correctly......but.....it's one of those camping lights that match the highbeams on your car or truck.     Somehow, I need to be able to check my office lighting with a gauge of some type?

This is the lab page, I could not find anyplace there where they recommend color temperature settings....could it possibly be the lab?  I wouldn't think so.

https://support.bayphoto.com/customer/en/portal/articles/2115661-advanced-color-management

 

Here are the settings results after my calibration.   One is the brightness setting before optimizing it to match 80.0 cd/m^2.....the other the results of the settings produced from the calibration. 

[Damien Symonds]

Yeah, it really sounds like you need better room light.

[MHalloran]

Since I re-calibrated....I now know if we follow Spyder recommendation on brightness of a monitor, you get pretty bright.  That would mean everyone on the planet would be receiving prints that are not matching their screen?  Heck.....I'm not so sure about that.  My original calibration on my recently purchased monitor, which is pretty good......Dell U2518D-5--

https://pcmonitors.info/reviews/dell-u2518d/

Spyder had me adjust the brightness to 75%----giving me prints at least 2 stops darker.  That's not the only thing: all of the photographs that I had edited in the last 2 months are going to print dark as well....but appear great on my monitor!

That is my fault for sure....I guess.....I calibrated the monitor immediately, BUT, I didn't have any prints made from edits on this monitor settings......

Now re calibrating, and lowering the brightness in the Spyder4Elite preferences from 120 to 80, still brightens the monitor so it still doesn't match my recent print.  I'm guessing, any editing that I have posted in Damien's Raw class are too dark....and any that I send in email are various shades as well.  Print Matching -------I've got a way to go.

The only difference in this calibration, is my monitor is now 14% on brightness, instead of the original pre-printed image of 75% brightness setting....I will assume that the colors will match on future prints, since they matched on this one.  So, I erased all the settings on the photograph above, and re-edited it....the image is very close to what my monitor was seeing before, and what I wanted the print to look like, the white balance is slightly different....as it would be in a photograph like this one.   

[Damien Symonds]

For whatever it's worth, I like the brightness of that one.

[MHalloran]

Well...I guess I should send 2 or 3 to the printer....the goal is to match isn’t it?  

Buggin me

[Damien Symonds]

2 or 3 is a bare minimum.  More is better.

Did you read these guidelines?