Continuation from FB - Adobe CC apps won't launch

[LauraA]

I haven't been able to use ANY of my Adobe apps since October. Yes, it's been THREE MONTHS. I was on the phone with Adobe for twelve hours yesterday alone. The tech support and customer service has been absolutely awful. I'm at my wit's end. Despite numerous CC cleaner tool uses, a plethora of un/re-installations, and a new Windows installation, several new user accounts on my PC along the way, and I'm still getting a file is locked/permissions error (which may only be part of the problem - I'm pretty certain we've eliminated Windows as the cause (no issues w/any other programs just specific to Adobe products, and there was a CC update that appears to have been the catalyst). I am being held hostage and sanity is now questionable. Every single folder permission that could be the culprit has been modified ad nauseum, and Adobe is acting like they have zero clue but want to blame Microsoft (who says it's definitely an Adobe issue).

We've tried all kinds of fixes (I'm happy to list them all off), but nothing has worked yet, and actually, it seemed like all of this only created some new issues and made things worse. I'm pretty certain that the next thing Adobe is going to want to do is install their apps on an external drive - but that doesn't really solve the problem, it's just a work-around, and it's going to take all kinds of time to work like that, isn't it? If my apps aren't living on my C drive and my PC has to reach out to an external drive for everything? That just doesn't seem acceptable to me.

HELP???

[Brian]

Quote

We've tried every older version available AND reinstalling my Master Collection 5. - all unsuccessfully. We can't get any Adobe product to launch. I've done a complete Windows reinstallation (at great inconvenience and at Adobe's insistence) which resolved nothing. I cannot begin to describe my level of frustration at this point. I've used CC since inception w/out issue up until their CC update that appears to have created this fiasco. And they have only made the issue worse.

Manage

 

 

 

[Brian]

OK...

Let's begin.

2 minutes ago, LauraA said:

I'm still getting a file is locked/permissions error (which may only be part of the problem - I'm pretty certain we've eliminated Windows

Buzz!!! I'm sorry, that is incorrect.

You are getting that error because your Windows is botched up. Either there was an underlying problem with your Windows and the PS CC update triggered something, OR the PS CC update is the main culprit. Either way, the end-result is the same. As I have stated over on FB, I've dealt with this permissions problem before, and it's a nasty one. I had to delete the main C Drive partition and re-create during the Windows custom installation to fix that server. I spent MONTHS trying to "fix" it and there was no fix. Nuke it and start all over...actually took me 4-6 hours to do. With my problem, I un-hid the App Data folder and each time I double clicked on the folder, it would triplicate. Clicked the folder again, triplicate again, then again, then again. I discovered this problem when the Backup Software ran the night prior and tried accessing this folder. Imagine a Folder that was only a couple of Kilobytes, ballooning into several Terabytes over 12 hours. I  was fortunate to cancel the backup program, but had to manually delete thousands and thousands of corrupted App Data Folders. Coincidentally, you know what folder was in that corrupted folder? A folder labeled "Adobe." That is how I know what you are going through. 
 

8 minutes ago, LauraA said:

am being held hostage and sanity is now questionable. Every single folder permission that could be the culprit has been modified ad nauseum, and Adobe is acting like they have zero clue but want to blame Microsoft (who says it's definitely an Adobe issue).

I'll bet...and you are caught in the middle of a pissing contest between Adobe and Microsoft.

 

9 minutes ago, LauraA said:

I'm pretty certain that the next thing Adobe is going to want to do is install their apps on an external drive - but that doesn't really solve the problem

You are correct, it won't fix anything if the App Data folder file has corrupted. Even if you install programs on an external drive, stuff gets put in the App Data Folder under the User Profile in Windows. The reason is that folder is more of what's called a "Symbolic Link," and it's not truly a folder. It is just a pointer file that is posing as a folder. (Well, that's my interpretation. I'm sure there is an official definition out there but we are splitting hairs on technicalities at this point.)

That's why Adobe is trying to create a new profile to see if that works, and it will not. The core component that controls that folder is corrupted, I'm almost certain of it...and this is based on my own personal experience; I wish I could say something like, "Capacitor J2635 isn't running at the proper voltage oscillation, thereby contributing to the issue with the Flux Capacitor not being able to control the space-time continuum, which is causing your Windows to not function properly..." Or something.

 

16 minutes ago, LauraA said:

We've tried all kinds of fixes (I'm happy to list them all off), but nothing has worked yet, and actually, it seemed like all of this only created some new issues and made things worse.

You are correct. Just like pushing the Elevator Button 15 times...it's not going to make the Elevator come any quicker, it just gives you something to do.

 

17 minutes ago, LauraA said:

If my apps aren't living on my C drive and my PC has to reach out to an external drive for everything? That just doesn't seem acceptable to me.

Yes. That is not acceptable. Not only will this method not work, due to the corrupted Windows, if it did, you would be dealing with a bottleneck with working off a USB 2.0 or USB 3.0 port. Not good. Don't bother doing this. 

 

22 minutes ago, Brian said:

I've done a complete Windows reinstallation (at great inconvenience and at Adobe's insistence) which resolved nothing. I cannot begin to describe my level of frustration at this point. I've used CC since inception w/out issue up until their CC update that appears to have created this fiasco. And they have only made the issue worse.

I empathize. You poor Woman. I can say that with this PS 2019 update...it has screwed up A LOT of people's computers. You are not alone. I think you mentioned somewhere that your computer is being replaced sometime later this year but as of right now it's not in the budget. Understandable with the Holidays just behind us. I do have an idea though. It's not as expensive as buying a new computer, but it will definitely solve your problem and get you up and running. That will be posted in the next comment box.

I will ask, what type of computer do you have now? (Make / Model) How large is your current/main hard drive in terms of capacity?

[Brian]

Ah...here is the comment box from FB:

 

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Forgive my naivete in all of this, as I'm fairly useful with normal issues, but this is far outside of my comfort zone. Microsoft had me download a new (to me) copy of Windows to a thumb drive. We then booted from the thumb drive to re-install (?) Windows. They provided me with a new product key as even though I have/had a valid one, it wasn't allowing us to use that product key to perform the re-installation (?). Doing this wiped out everything on my system - all of my drivers, all other existing programs, everything. I was under the assumption that this was called and considered a "clean installation", but the Adobe tech I dealt with on Friday was insulted by that (mmmkay). I have no issue doing whatever it takes to get this up and running again, as there is currently nothing to lose. I had all of my files backed up, but it's going to take forever to locate and reinstall any programs I'd had in a futile attempt to rebuild my PC to what I'd had. FWIW, Adobe has created a new user profile on a couple of different dates in an attempt to work around this - would one user profile with a corrupt App Data folder trump all user profiles on the system? (If it does, that would definitely explain why this can seemingly not be resolved). Is this something that an upgrade to Windows 10 would solve? (I hate to invest in that as this is a machine that's due to be upgraded, and neither of those things are in the budget until later this year, but at the rate I'm losing time, money, and sanity with this nonsense it may be worth it). Thank you in advance for your time, and we can move this to the forum or PM if either are more appropriate.)

 

[Brian]

Just now, Brian said:

Microsoft had me download a new (to me) copy of Windows to a thumb drive. We then booted from the thumb drive to re-install (?) Windows. They provided me with a new product key as even though I have/had a valid one, it wasn't allowing us to use that product key to perform the re-installation (?).

THIS IS A VERY GOOD THING.

To answer your question, when you purchase a store-bought / name-brand PC, Dell, HP, Toshiba, Sony, whatever...you actually do not purchase a Microsoft Windows License, but one that was given to the manufacture, and then that license is sold / forwarded to you. So it's not a "Microsoft Windows OEM" License but a "HP Version" of Microsoft Windows or a "Dell Version" of Microsoft Windows, or whatever. It works exactly the same as a OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) copy of Windows directly purchased from Microsoft; it just has to do with the licensing more than anything. (Another Splitting Hairs thing.) 

So by having Microsoft giving you a new license key, and getting the installer .ISO on a thumb-drive, has helped things immensely, even though it doesn't seem like it has and ties in with my idea. 

 

7 minutes ago, Brian said:

Doing this wiped out everything on my system - all of my drivers, all other existing programs, everything. I was under the assumption that this was called and considered a "clean installation"

 

7 minutes ago, Brian said:

I have no issue doing whatever it takes to get this up and running again, as there is currently nothing to lose. I had all of my files backed up, but it's going to take forever to locate and reinstall any programs I'd had in a futile attempt to rebuild my PC to what I'd had.

There is light at the end of the proverbial tunnel, and it's not an oncoming train. Since you are already backed up and have nothing to lose except time, we are ready to proceed with my idea. This should only take a day or so to get you up and running 100% and probably a week to get EVERYTHING reloaded, but at the end you will once again have a stable system, AND quite possibly install and run PS CC 2019 with no problems...

What we are going to do is remove your existing hard drive,  have you purchase a brand new main hard drive, and install a fresh Windows 10 Pro on that new HD with the key provided from Microsoft. Hopefully, this is a desktop computer and not a stupid laptop, which WILL complicate things if it's a laptop.

I personally use and HIGHLY RECOMMEND the Western Digital Caviar Black Line of Internal Hard Drives. You could purchase a 1TB 7200RPM Model for about $72, or go with something larger, like a 2TB for $120. You could get a 4TB model, though by doing so adds a few steps to the Windows Installation Routine. This is due to the limitations of a MBR (Master Boot Record) partition of 2TB maximum. Anything higher 3TB or more will need to be converted / upgraded to a GPT Disk (the replacement for MBR) so that you will be able to use 4TB in its entirety for your main drive. So to keep things simple, and fairly inexpensive, I'd stick to a 1TB or 2TB hard drive.

Replacing your hard drive is fairly straightforward. Unplug the computer, wait about a minute or two to make sure all the trickle charges have dissipated from the motherboard, and un-mount the existing HD. You will remove a power connector and data connector and then pull out the HD. Transfer over the mounting screws / mounting cage from the old hard drive to the new one and hook up the power / data cable. Then turn on your computer, let it detect the new HD (it should do this automatically,) then plug in the Window 10 Pro Thumb Drive. Follow the prompts to install a fresh copy of Windows 10 Pro. You will create an Administrator Account and more accounts / Admin Accounts after installation. (I can help with this part.) Then it's just a matter of letting Windows detect your components and getting a connection to the internet. That is the MAIN THING which is THE MOST IMPORTANT...THE NETWORK CARD DRIVER. You usually can download all sorts of manufacturer's drivers if they are available (like video card, sound card and motherboard chipset drivers, etc.) but that isn't going to happen if your Ethernet Port doesn't work. That said, these days that issue is pretty minor as Windows 10 Pro detects things 98% of the time on the first try. Even then it will attempt a Microsoft Generic Driver to get you going.

Why Windows 10 Pro? Windows 7 is going to be taken behind the proverbial barn and shot dead on January 7, 2020. All support will be abandoned for Windows 7 on that date, so you better get used to Windows 10 now because its days are numbered. Actually, looking at the calendar...it's a year from this date as I type this. 

Oh, the benefit to replacing the Hard Drive is not only will you have a faster / higher quality drive and a clean slate to work from, you can always re-install your old HD if you needed to get something off of it. Plus, this new HD is an investment, when the time comes to get a new computer, simply pull this new HD and mount it into an external case. Boom! You will then have a 1TB or 2TB EHD that you can use in your new computer, OR mount it as a 2nd HD in your new desktop computer. Either way the installation process is very similar for both an internal enclosure or external.

Thoughts?

[LauraA]

Brian!!! Thank you for your time and thoughtful responses. You've made more sense over a few hours than Adobe and Microsoft have made in three months. I cannot thank you enough for putting this into terms that both make perfect sense and fit all of the pieces together. I've read through all of this but am going to need to re-read it again and slower the second time through. Whew!

I have a Dell M6400 Mobile workstation, with 16 Gb of RAM and two, raid hard drives at 700 Gb. I've upgraded the hard drives once since I've had the system (I also upgraded the RAM at some point). I'm not certain that I have the tools I need to get inside this thing, and that's why I'm pretty sure I hired someone to replace them for me (I'll have to look, I've upgraded hard drives and RAM myself a few times but for the life of me can't remember if it was this machine or not. Replacing them may not be an issue IF I can get inside it). I'm pretty certain that I won't be able to find replacement drives locally, so they'll probably have to be ordered. If I can't get in this machine, I'll have to take it somewhere to have them replaced.

You'd mentioned wiping the existing hard drives on FB. Is there no hope for the drives in my system because of this issue? Again - at this point I have nothing to lose, but ordering new drives and then getting in line at a repair shop to have them replaced is going to take more time. Not a deal breaker and not impossible, I'm just curious if it's worth a stab or not. And yes, if I'm going through all of this anyway, then it would be stupid to not just upgrade to Windows 10!

I'm expecting Adobe to call me tomorrow at 11 AM, but if this turns out anything like the other scheduled support calls that I've had with them, they're going to stand me up again. Thus far, they've acted as if they are completely dumbstruck by this ordeal while I'm shocked that I'm their only customer in the history of ever that's experienced this problem since October (which is really more like September, but I travel a lot so wasn't around to catch it on the day it actually happened).

Thank you again for your time and expertise. I am beyond grateful.

 

[Brian]

Dell M6400?

Ugh. I'm going to go bang my head against the wall. I hate laptops. Such a PITA when you need to fix them. We now have to worry about physical size of your hard drives and the type of interface that they use. It's not as straightforward as a desktop computer. Bonus Points: Dell has discontinued it and the manuals for it aren't coming up so I'm kinda blind at this point. 

From where I stand, there is no hope for your existing partition; as far as I'm concerned, your hard drives are "Contaminated," for lack of a better term. In my honest and professional opinion, (doing this for almost 26 years) you either need to install new hard drives, or at the very least delete the current partition(s) and then re-install Windows 10 Pro. Anything other than a full "Nuke" (Delete Existing Partitions) is going to put you right back to the same spot as you are now. It's like you have some sort of "Virus" (for lack of a better term) and no matter how many "scans" or re-installations you do, it's not going to fix your problem. You need a clean slate to work from; the word "re-install" or even "Upgrade from Windows 7" is no longer part of your vocabulary. Your Windows is so corrupted, it is not repairable. Permissions and Folder Ownership Problems are nasty and usually aren't repairable. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news; believe it or not, you will fix your problem within a day or so rather than months by working from a clean slate.

Now, since you have a RAID Setup, you will need the RAID Controller Drivers or else Windows will freak out and won't install.So before doing anything, try to create the Dell Recovery Media if that is an option. I'm more concerned about the RAID Drivers more than anything.

If you have a repair shop to take your laptop to, do it. Have them delete your current C Drive partition and have them install Windows 10 Pro. (Bring along your license key.) Hopefully their labor fees are reasonable since we aren't going to try and "fix" this problem and just need a huge reset done on your laptop and go from there.

[LauraA]

I just ran a check over on Crucial and I can get two, 1 TB solid state drives for it for about $135/each. I can totally live with that.

Reinstall and upgrade are now officially banned from my vocabulary. If I use either again, please throw things at me.

Now, this Dell Recovery Media - I'm not sure what that is, but I will learn, and ditto that for the RAID Controller Drivers - but I have a question on that - when I booted the new version of Windows 7 from my thumb drive (with the new product code they gave me), I lost all of the existing drivers on my PC (at least, that's what it looked like to me from here). I spent several hours on Dell's web site trying to insure that I had all of the important ones for my machine listed on my Dell account for it. I didn't have to do anything at all for the RAID configuration with that, but I understand that I was working with an existing version of Windows and not starting from scratch - I assume that's the difference here and why I'll need to hunt that down?

And lastly, just for clarification for me - I'll load the (new) Windows 7 and then upgrade to 10 from there? (Quick - throw something - I just realized I typed "upgrade". I suppose it's more like I'm just using Windows 7 as a temporary bridge to get to Windows 10?)

Again - I can't thank you enough for your time and effort. You don't need to look anything up for me (you've wasted enough of your precious time on this!), but if you tell me what I should look for, I can do the leg work, and with your permission - run it by you before I do anything stupid and make my impossible situation even worse. I can't believe I've absolutely wasted three months with this and could have solved it eleven weeks ago...GRRRRRRRRRR!!!

Edited January 7, 2019 by LauraA
Edited to add a detail and correct a typo

[Brian]

17 minutes ago, LauraA said:

And lastly, just for clarification for me - I'll load the (new) Windows 7 and then upgrade to 10 from there? (Quick - throw something - I just realized I typed "upgrade". I suppose it's more like I'm just using Windows 7 as a temporary bridge to get to Windows 10?)

No. (Brian throws Nerf Football in your direction...)

Awesome, purchase those 1TB SSD Drives from Crucial.com. Your RAID Controller might have the drivers built in but the only way to find out is to actually try installing new drives. 

1. Remove existing Hard Drives
2. Put a sticky note on which section of your laptop the original HDs came from. (left side / right side or bay 1 / bay 2.) This is important if we need to re-install them. Use a piece of tape to make sure the sticky notes don't fall off the old HDs.
3. Install new Hard Drives.
4. Configure new Hard Drives as a RAID1 (Drive Mirroring)
5. Boot from Windows 10 Pro Thumdrive
6. install a fresh copy of Windows 10 Pro. Remember, "Upgrade" is not in your vocabulary.
7. Create Administrator Account & follow the prompts.
8. Run Windows Updates.
9. Create your own Admin Profile with your name. I can give instructions on how to do this. It's good practice to have a separate and dedicated Administrator Account and to create a separate Daily Admin Account to work from, usually this is your name and not "Administrator." This way you have a backup login if things go wrong / stuff gets corrupted.

[LauraA]

Okay - I missed a step. The one where I get Windows 10 on a thumb drive! Is it spelled out on Microsoft's site when I buy a new copy of Windows where I can install it to direct the download to a thumb drive? (And I guess you don't even have to answer that as I'll find out when I go to do it, but I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything important).

Also, is there anything I might want to consider replacing while I have my machine open for the new hard drives? I think I'm maxed out on memory. I'll ask to have the fan checked out just in case (that's like a $20 part, maybe I'll just go ahead and have that replaced while it's open, too).

Onward with the adventure...! Ha ha ha

[LauraA]

(Drives have been ordered and should arrive within a couple of days)

[Brian]

I thought Microsoft had you use the Download Tool and create a Thumb Drive with Windows 10? They gave you a new key and everything. Do you not have a Thumb Drive with Win 10 Pro? Or do you just have an install key that they e-mailed you? 

If you need to create a Win 10 Pro Thumb Drive, download the Media Creation Tool from Microsoft. You will need a blank Thumb Drive, I recommend at least a 8GB Sandisk Thumb Drive, or just get a 16GB Version since they are so cheap these days. Insert the new Thumb Drive into your computer, let it detect and open "My Computer" or "Computer" in the start menu and right click on it and do a quick format. In the Volume Label Box, give it a name like WININSTALL, WIN10PRO or something similar / unique / obvious. Leave everything else at the default selections like NTFS, etc. and leave the "Quick Format Checkbox, checked. Hit Start at the bottom and let it format, should take less than a minute or so. 

Now Open the Media Creation Tool. You will want to create a 64-bit Windows 10 Pro meant for "Another Computer." Now it seems the Migration Tool has changed slightly, but here is a decent instructional video that you should watch. Even though the screens might have changed, the process should be familiar after watching the video. You want a "English Version," "Windows 10 PRO" and "64 - Bit" if asked then tell it you want to create a Thumb Drive and not a .ISO file, which is a DVD. Oh, just straight Windows 10 Pro, no other letters or whatever after it. The Media Creation Tool will then connect to Microsoft's servers, download the file and install it onto the Thumb Drive.

Then after you install the HDs, set them up as RAID 1, you simply boot off the Thumb Drive and follow the prompts to install Windows. (Insert the Thumb Drive before powering on.) You might have to use the "Boot Manager" with your laptop. That could be the F12 key or F9, or even F11 depending on your computer. When you power the computer on, look for something like "Hit F9 to enter boot menu" or "F12 Boot Manager," something along those lines on the POST Screen. (The Dell Logo Screen.) Then select the Thumb Drive in the list and it should boot off the Win 10 Pro Thumb Drive.

Clear as Mud?

[Brian]

1 hour ago, LauraA said:

I think I'm maxed out on memory

Yep. 16GB is the maximum for your laptop. Fan might just need to be blown out.

[LauraA]

We downloaded a new version of Windows 7 Pro, Service pack 1 to a thumb drive with a new product key that they provided (you were 100% correct on why I needed the new product key. My PC came pre-loaded with Windows straight from Dell and that's why they needed to provide a new one; the existing product key would not register with the new version of Windows 7 we were trying to activate).

[Brian]

OK, if you want to install Windows 7 Pro that Microsoft gave you, that's fine since you are upgrading your laptop within the next year or so. Just be sure to do all the Windows Updates before Microsoft pulls the plug a year exactly from now. If you want to install Windows 10 Pro, that will cost you $199.

I'm cheap. Windows 7 for your old laptop is fine.

[LauraA]

UPDATE:

New hard drives arrived today. Found a local shop to install them and they said they can do it quickly. Am going to see about just doing a Windows 10 installation on them from the get-go. They'll also install Adobe products for me (they have the benefit of high speed internet, so can do this in a fraction of the time my rural service will take).

My fingers are crossed - I could be technically up and running by the weekend if all goes well.

[Brian]

Oh yeah. The Windows 10 updates alone...you NEED high-speed internet.

Fingers crossed.

[LauraA]

Just returned from the repair shop. Two SSDs were installed (went without the RAID configuration, the tech said he didn't think I needed it and would benefit from the extra storage more - and if I change my mind about it later he'd do it for free, so...), she was cleaned and checked, Windows 10 was installed, and I was able download, install, and launch (!) all of my Adobe products before I left the shop. 

I think this wound up costing somewhere in the neighborhood of $650 plus three months of time - but I'd have sucked it up and done it three months ago if the geniuses at Adobe would have suggested it when they realized they couldn't fix it.

Thank you, Brian, for swooping in to save me with your expertise and insight. I'd *still* be on the phone with Adobe tech support and banging my head against the nearest hard surface. At least I can work now. BONUS: my machine is now much faster with the SSDs, so there's that. 

Of course, I'm on the road the next two days so I can't dive deeper on my machine and verify that everything is running exactly as it should be in great detail, but I'll be doing that next week and will update accordingly.

FINGERS CROSSED and a million thanks again to Brian and everyone on the FB thread that helped!!!

[Brian]

Sweet!!! SSD drives are WAY faster and the bonus? Don't require that much power to run. So you should get more battery life while travelling.

As for the RAID, I agree. Having more space is always a good thing. The downside to a RAID 1 setup is data corruption; if a file is corrupted on one drive, it is automatically corrupted on the other drive.

I think your problems have been fixed. From what I can tell, I think the majority of issues that people are having with and existing botched up Windows and the latest round of Adobe updates just aggravate things. Since you have a clean slate to work off of, future Adobe updates should not be an issue going forward.

Enjoy your new Hard Drives.