DELL COOLING ISSUES

[JaniceQ]

Hi, Brian

I need to buy a new Windows Desktop.  I was going with Dell because I've been happy with their products in the past.  I'm in Australia.

Based on Specs & price, I narrowed it down to an XPS 8940, or a G5 Gaming PC.  Specs are similar, prices are similar but the G5 is currently on special.

XPS has:
Intel i7 11700K
16GB RAM
1TB SSD / 2TB HDD
NVIDIA 3070 8GB
$3,299 (AUD)

G5 has:
Intel i7 10700F
16GB RAM
1TB SSD
NVIDIA 3070 8GB
$2,399 ($800 off) - AUD

I was all set to buy the G5, when a Dell person said he wouldn't recommend the G5 over the XPS - it was hard to understand a lot of what he said but he did mention cooling issues (and perhaps speed), and I recalled seeing a comment online about overheating.  Google tells me there are bad cooling issues with the G5 range because the fans are uselessly small.

It also seems overheating problems could exist with the XPS, but maybe the Intel K versions have adequate fans but other models don't. ???

I'm wondering if I go to the Alienware range, would that be the premium range and I'd avoid problems altogether.

I'll put in another call to Dell and see if I can get any sense out of them, but I was wondering if you have any knowledge, understanding or opinion on these Dell machines.  Thank you
 

[Brian]

Honestly? The person from Dell is correct. I would personally purchase the Dell XPS system. In fact, they are my "Go-To" when it comes to recommending a "Good PC for Photo Editing." They are good for what they are, have some life to them and work for the majority of the people / members of Ask Damien. I even bought my Wife one a few years ago for Christmas, though nowhere as near as the power as your models that you have linked to; I'm just saying I "put-my-money-where-my-mouth-is..."

Between the two, you have a "Good" model, the G5 and the "Better" Model, the XPS. The Alienware could be considered the "Best," but honestly, it's way overkill. Here is a dirty secret when it comes to Adobe Photoshop. Ready?

Buying a $10,000+ computer with all the latest hardware does not ensure you that Photoshop will run faster!! That's right, Photoshop probably isn't going to run faster on the Alienware vs the G5! There is even a good chance that it will run SLOWER. Well, maybe a little faster, but nothing Earth-Shattering. You see, in order for Photoshop to run faster, it needs to be programmed to take advantage of what makes one CPU faster than another! Otherwise, it ignores the extra Horsepower from a faster CPU Chip. For example, when Intel i5 CPUs and Intel i7 CPUs where the two top-dogs in the industry, Adobe Photoshop only ran about 5% - 7% faster on a Intel i7 vs someone using a i5. That's right, if you spent the extra $$$ on a i7, Photoshop only ran a little faster. It just wasn't programmed to take advantage of the extra architecture that made the i7 so much faster over a i5. Make sense? This is the same reason why I tend to recommend a Intel i7 over someone getting a i9! The truth is, Adobe Photoshop is using other components to increase performance, namely the Video Card! In fact, I'd recommend a person purchase a Intel i7 and take those savings and put them towards a computer that has a better video card than one that has a faster CPU and low-powered Video Card! Oh, in case you are wondering, I wouldn't purchase a i5 in today's world. i7 is what you want when it comes to the current versions of Adobe Photoshop CC.

In reality, if you want PS to run fast, this is what to get:

• Intel i7 11700K
• 32GB of RAM (or more)
• 1TB SSD Drive (or larger)
• NVIDIA® GeForce® RTX 3070™ 8GB GDDR6
• A 800 Watt Power Supply.

Sure, you can get away with a 650 Watt Power Supply, but the Video Card also needs some power for itself these days. So 800 Watts is a "Safe" bet, conversationally speaking. That being said, if Dell installs a 650Watt Power Supply and they are using a Intel i7 11700K CPU and a GeForce RTX 3070, then you shouldn't have any issues. Why the "K?" When I configure computers, I have a 7-8 lifespan in mind. I hate-hate-hate wasting money on this sh*t. It doesn't do you any good saving $900 only to go out and buy ANOTHER computer 2-3 years from now! You end up spending more money in the long-run. Make sense? $3299 for 6-7 years of usage vs $4798 (or more) in that same time period!! Buy it Right-Buy it Once!!

So what's the difference between the two Intel Chips? Honestly, they are almost identical in every way except for two things:

Base Frequency & Turbo Frequency.

"Huh?"

The Intel i7 11700K consumes a little more power, which requires a larger Power Supply, and is slightly faster with the Base Frequency of 3.6GHz (vs 2.5GHz) and the Turbo Frequency of 5.0GHz (vs 4.9GHZ.) The "K" also means that the chip is unlocked so if you have a motherboard that supports it, you can over-clock your computer to get even more speed out of the chip. As far as the Fan / Cooling, the faster the computer runs, the hotter it gets. So yes, I'm sure Dell has put in a better cooling system in the XPS model and possibly it has better airflow in the case. Like I said, it's a "Better" Model. In ANY case, if you don't have good airflow in your computer, you are asking for problems. Heat is the enemy for any computer; because the hotter it runs, the slower it runs and the tendency to lock up / lag increases. Heat will decrease the over-all lifespan on any computer product. Especially on Desktops/Laptops that have clogged vents and fans.

I know, it's a $900 difference and that's the "Norm" in 2021 due to the world-wide chip shortage. In reality, it is the WORST TIME TO BE IN THE CURRENT MARKET FOR A NEW COMPUTER! Even in the US, $3299 is "average" for a computer "That's Good for Photo Editing." Just think, a year ago, before COVID-19, that XPS computer would have been around the $2000 mark. (AU$) Maybe slightly higher, but less than A$ 2200!

Bottom Line: I'd buy the Dell XPS and skip the G5 and Alienware computers.

 

[JaniceQ]

Thank you so much for giving such an indepth answer.  I had read your article about the best specs, so I applied that when choosing, and I went for models specifically with the RTX3070 graphics card and Intel i7.  All the machines on offer have only 16GB RAM - 2x 8GB, 4 slots, and configuration for 32GB doesn't include any 8GB chips, which is pretty rude of Dell.

Thanks for the tip on the power supply - I'll add that to my list, as I didn't realise it made a difference.

 I had ruled out the Alienware as overkill, but there is one with comparable specs (i7 11700F, 16GB RAM (XMP a bit faster), 3070 graphics card, 512gb SSD [smaller], 1TB HDD) to the XPS on special - $3,000 ($1,000 off) compared to the $3,200 for the XPS.  When I realised there could be overheating problems in the G5, I looked again at the Alienware and discovered the one on special has super-duper liquid cooling. I'm not sure if that's overkill, given that it's not for gaming.  And it's ugly.

Yes, I'd like it to last at least 5 years.  Perhaps I should wait a while and see if a suitable XPS comes up discounted.  There are so many sales and discounts these days, I wonder if full retail prices are inflated.  I don't think we'll be going back to pre-COVID prices in a hurry. 

[Brian]

Alienware's line has always been goofy-looking. You are not their target audience.

You don't need liquid cooling, you aren't over-clocking or playing video games. Hell, you aren't even editing video, so all of that stuff is like having a Lamborghini and driving to the local Woolies that's a few Kilometers down the street twice a week. Most computers come with 8GB or 16GB of RAM and charge you a premium to add more. Honestly? If there are extra slots, YOU can add extra RAM yourself, for about 1/3rd of the cost. Maybe even less. Remember, this is 2021 and there is a chip shortage. Limited supply to go around. Be thankful 16GB is even an option. Oh, what I mean about "Limited Supply" is that it's not just the various parts that make up a computer, hard drives, power supplies, main boards, etc. It's the individual components that make up all of those parts, the chips, capacitors, resistors, etc. You can't make a Hard Drive if you don't have enough chips to create the controller board that controls the hard drive or the pieces that make up silly things like data and/or power connectors. See what I'm getting at? It's getting better but there is still a shortage and high-prices. Not to mention that you live in OZ...everything is more expensive down your way.

Don't sweat it too much with the Power Supply. Dell makes it easy to pick the right one, but if you are getting a 3070 card, don't settle for the lowest option. Honestly, you aren't going to see THAT much of a difference of getting a computer with XMP RAM, this is Photoshop that we are talking about, not trying to get 1 or 2 frames per second out of a first-person shooter video game. It's Photoshop CC. It may not even work any faster with "Fancy" RAM.

Do not settle for a 500GB HD. 1TB or MORE is what you want. Not only for things like the PS Scratch Disk, but Windows has its own Scratch Disk called the Swapfile. Well, it used to be called that a long time ago, now it's also known as Pagefile.sys. Anyway, there is more behind the scenes that is competing for resources besides Photoshop. There is a method (and very good reason) that I jump up-and-down about 1TB HDs. Installing smaller HDs is easy for the manufacturers. Especially when it comes to SSD Drives. They get the performance and 15 second boot times, which makes Marketing's job easier; it also gives them the opportunity to save money since smaller SSD HDs are cheaper. Their COGS are lower. Of course they want to push small hard drives onto their customers. They probably make 200% profit with them for that component alone.

1 hour ago, JaniceQ said:

Perhaps I should wait a while and see if a suitable XPS comes up discounted.  There are so many sales and discounts these days, I wonder if full retail prices are inflated.

Dell almost always has Coupon Codes for discounts. You just need to be keenly aware of them BEFORE you click buy. Full prices are and always have been inflated. I've been in computers for over 30 years, in both repair AND sales. Trust me, they aren't out to be your friend and charge you a fair price; they are out to make money and to keep the Shareholders happy.

As far as the prices getting lower, I honestly don't think it's going to happen for at least until 2023 at the earliest. Just like when fuel was at an all-time-high (at least for us in the States back in 2007-2008 era,) the Manufactures went to a cheaper plastic, since all plastic is a petroleum-based product. You can feel the difference when you touch something, like a printer or an appliance that was made in 2005 vs one that is made in 2021. When the price of Oil went back to "Normal," the Manufactures kept using the cheaper plastics, even until this day. The prices will lower eventually, but I don't think they will go back to the levels that they were before COVID-19. Pandora's box has already been opened, no turning back now.

I still say you are overthinking! Be on the lookout for a Coupon Code, the Dell Rep may even have one. I'd still buy the XPS.

[JaniceQ]

Thanks very much for all your advice.  I appreciate your time, and that's all good advice.  I agree on the SSD - I was worried about that, and I don't want minimum specs because it'll be obsolete before I even start - but was thinking only of programs, forgetting the scratch disk and the other things I didn't even know about!  Good advice  - thank you.

I'll hang out for a while, but at least I know what I'm looking for now.  Appreciate your help.

 

 

[JaniceQ]

Hi, Brian,

Sorry to raise this again, but just wanted to check before I buy.  Dell's specials ended, and the following day they started new discounts so the XPS I want is now 25% off (obviously 25% off is their real retail price in Australia).  I know you said don't stress about the power supply wattage, BUT it has a 500W chassis (All XPS's and G5's are.  Alienware is 1000W).  You mentioned 650W and 800W.  Do you think 500W is too low and will it overheat, or do I just go with what Dell is offering - I mean there's no other option from them.

They specifically address cooling in their blurb so I'm assuming they've addressed those concerns.

https://www.dell.com/en-au/shop/dell-desktop-computers/xps-desktop/spd/xps-8940-desktop/hdx894005au

Thank you.  I really appreciate your advice.

 

[Brian]

I wouldn’t stress about it too much. Power supply requirements depend on the CPU chip, motherboard, cooling systems / method used, video card type and of course peripherals. 
 

Chances are, the XPS isn’t overclocked, the motherboard isn’t super-duper fast, it’s not water cooled using a pump, etc. just make sure you choose a NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 8GB video card and more than likely, that will bump up the power supply. The most important thing when it comes to the latest version of PS CC is the choice of video card. If it doesn’t have that card or better one, hold off on buying it. 
 

As far as my recommendations, it’s for the majority across the board. I’m trying to save someone trouble if they buy another brand and since you are looking at Dell, they are pretty good at picking the right power supply for what is installed. 

[JaniceQ]

Thanks so much.  I'm all sorted.  Appreciate your help.