Hear question concerning megapixels

[Michelle Gifford]

Hi Brian. I’m looking at either upgrading to the canon R5 (45 mp) or the R6 (20 mp). I already have the 6D mark ii (26 mp), and my computer handles those files just fine. My question is, if I were to upgrade and have double the mp, will my processor or graphics card need to be upgraded, inevitably meaning buying a new computer?

Edited December 2, 2021 by Michelle Gifford

[Brian]

19 hours ago, Michelle Gifford said:

My question is, if I were to upgrade and have double the mp, will my processor or graphics card need to be upgraded, inevitably meaning buying a new computer?

I'm so glad you asked because...

EVERYTHING WILL NEED TO BE UPGRADED.

I did a dumb thing and purchased a Nikon D850. Had to replace two f/2.8 zoom lenses, buy a new computer THEN upgrade the RAM to 64GB, upgrade my EHD to 12TB...all because of that stupid 45.7MP Sensor. That blasted camera costed me thousands to support it!!  Jumping up that high in the MP dept. will cause the whole infrastructure to be upgraded. I hope your wallet and bank account are prepared for the hit.

Have fun with your new camera.

PS: My next computer will have 128GB of RAM. As the years go on, Photoshop gets more bloated and doesn't perform well with ever major update combine that with more MP on the camera bodies, is a recipe for financial hurt if you aren't prepared.

[Michelle Gifford]

So if I get the R6 with 20mp, will I still have to upgrade? Is there more high tech stuff to worry about than the mp?

[Brian]

The more MP, the larger the Raw files. Period. Each time you duplicate a pixel layer, such as the background layer, your .psd file size DOUBLES. So if you have poor editing habits or duplicate pixel layers / flatten a lot, then you are going to have issues.

Entry-level cameras tend to be around 24MP. The R6 has 20. The R5, which is a VERY nice camera with oodles of features, is around 45MP. It's the nature of the beast. As time goes on, MPs are just going to increase, they just are.

My opinion, I think you probably will have buyers remorse going with a R6. Sure it will fit your computer now, but what happens in a 18 months when you think your camera body is lacking? Then you will have wasted the money on a R6 and buying the R5 like you should have originally.

Why not consider something like a Canon 5D Mark IV? That's still a decent body. I know everyone is Mirrorless Happy, as there is a constant barrage from all of the magazines, blogs, websites, YouTube Personalities...Mirrorless-Mirrorless-Mirrorless!!! You MUST BUY!!! It's the Future!!!!!! Mirrorless or you are a loser!! You are using outdated technology if you don't switch!!!

Please...spare me.

Before you take the plunge, I hope you realize in order to take full advantage of a Mirrorless Body and it's features, you need Mirrorless Lenses to go with that body, even if you purchase the R6. Sure, you can use existing glass with an adapter, but you aren't going to get 100% performance out of that R6 or R5 until you upgrade your glass. Same thing with the Nikon Mirrorless Bodies. I think you should hold off and do a little mental inventory. I'd recommend reading Thom Hogan, who is a Tech Guy that I follow. He has posted a few recent articles lately about people wanting to switch from a DSLR to Mirrorless and he makes very good points, he usually does, and one of his latest blog posts are based off of Mike Johnston's recent post, which is also worth a read. Here are some highlights from Thom's Article:

Quote

Mike's thoughts are not only well worth reading, but extremely timely given that we're headed into the holiday buying season. 

I'm going to piggyback on Mike's discussion a bit, and simplify his five principles into three:

1. Buy the best camera you can afford and will carry.
2. Buy only the lenses you will carry and use most of the time.
3. Use this kit as long as possible.

  and

Quote

If you're thinking about buying gear this holiday season, I suggest you do something first: rationalize your gear kit. What do you really need, and why? What is failing you, and why? What are you really using of what you own, and why aren't you using all the things that sit in your gear closet?

My thoughts exactly! What do you hope to gain with switching to Mirrorless? In my humble opinion, if you buy a R6, you are buying just another 6D Mark II that you will want to replace in 12-18 months. Why waste that money?

The problem is the R5 is a very nice camera and is one that I would purchase. But you need the computer infrastructure to support all of those MP. Plus the Glass to feed those 45MP. The problem with most folks, is they think that the gear makes them a better photographer. They have no problem forking out a few thousand dollars but never take that money and invest it in themselves.

So Riddle Me This...

Why are you upgrading? Have you actually taken the time and read your camera's manual and mastered ALL of it's features? Do you know how each one of the focus modes work and when to use them? While I'm all for buying a new toy, I HATE-HATE-HATE wasting money on this shit.

[Brian]

Oh, this thread needs to be in "Gear Talk" and I'm moving it now.

[Michelle Gifford]

I have used my current body for four years, and I know every single thing about it. I’m just holding my breath until the shutter craps out on me. Also, my 12 year old sigma telephoto 70-200mm has tapped out completely. It’s maxed out on micro adjustment and produced only 44 mediocre usable images out of 356 photos of my last senior shoot (overshot due to noticing the lack of sharp focus). I’m looking at having to purchase a new telephoto for sure, ASAP, and I love the compression of it for portraits, so I thought if I’m soon going to upgrade to mirrorless, why not do it now with R series glass. I also have four photographer friends who’ve gone mirrorless, two of which have actually mentored me, and I have seen the quality of their images go up immensely. With good glass (my canon 24-105 f4), I get tack sharp images, but I still get maxed out in low light due to that aperture and iso capabilities of my 6D mark ii. I had to do a crap ton of post processing on my last pageants due to this. I did rent a 5D mark iv for a wedding (due to the dual card slots-another plus of the R6), and I did love it for sure and could tell a huge difference in the quality of my images compared to the 6D. I feel like I am due for an upgrade regardless whether I go for the 5D or the R6. I don’t foresee a future need for 46mp or 8K video, so I don’t have a desire for the R5 or the R3 for that matter, hence the reason for looking hard at the R6. So I’m kind of stuck mainly because I need a telephoto like yesterday. Not that it will rush me into something, but I do need it. I have a newer version that I borrow from my sister, but I can’t keep doing that and wearing her crap out. I’m not a borrower really and I don’t lend my stuff out either much. This is just where I am, so I wanted to make sure my stuff could handle the R6. 
I sure appreciate the lengthy and informative response. I will check out Mike’s and Thom’s thoughts! Thanks so much. 

Edited December 4, 2021 by Michelle Gifford
Typo

[Brian]

OK. You have very valid points in upgrading. I wasn't trying to be a meanie or a Jerk, But you'd be surprised how many people try to buy their way out of things.

Now that I know the situation, it gives me more to work with.

14 hours ago, Michelle Gifford said:

I need a telephoto like yesterday.

Yes you do.

This time, I want you to buy a Canon Canon RF 70-200 f/2.8L lens. With OEM Glass, there is a difference and I'm a Nikon OEM Snob. You don't realize the difference until you shoot with one on a normal basis. "...But! But! Sigma! Tamron! These MTF Charts are better and this blog-post or YouTube Personality says..." blah-blah-blah!!"

Save it.

There is a difference in build quality and the consistency of images that OEM Glass produces. Plus the whole resale thing if that ever were to happen. People buy that $1400 Sigma lens, then they go to sell it and only get offered $200 at most. "But I spent $1400!! Can you do any better?" Shop-owner, "...well it's a Sigma, so no. $200 it is. Take it or leave it."

Since you make money with your gear, it's important to have things you can count on working and produce better results. It's not a good thing to shoot 300+ images to get 44 "Keepers," and if they are mostly mediocre, it's not worth your time. Time is money. Wasting it to polish "Meh" photos isn't going to work long term. You know this. The big question is, Budget?. How big is it? Because honestly? You need just about everything replaced.

Now that you've told me what you are shooting, I can honestly say the R6 is definitely worth buying. Personally, I have a love/hate relationship with my D850. People rave about the D850 but for me, I'd rather have spent the money on something else, or better yet, saved that money. Here is the thing, you are going to need RF glass with a Mirrorless Body. I'd recommend getting a Canon RF 24-70 f/2.8L lens in addition to the R6. Hold off on buying a computer for right now. Prices are insanely high for what you get, and if you can shoot less and yield better results, you can make the most of that right now. Plus, as I've mentioned before, you are going to need RF Glass with a R6, (Man, I sound so repetitive, please bear with me. LOL!) If you think it's better with your current lenses, you haven't seen anything yet. For example, in order to take advantage of the "Sensor-Shift 5-Axis Image Stabilization," you need to use the RF Glass. Otherwise, it's just the 3-Axis Stabilization.

The problem is...availability. Stuff is sitting on ships off the cost of California. Many items are on back-order and you need a R6 and new RF 70-200 2.8. I totally get what you mean about the compression. The 70-200 is what you use to create those shots for the Portfolio. I need to use mine more. I'm always using my 24-70 f/2.8, but I shoot Weddings Professionally and it just works better "Running & Gunning." I also have a friend that was forced to purchase a Nikon Z6 body due to a hand issue (She shot with a D4.) She wasn't 100% Happy until she replaced her 24-70 f/2.8 with the 24-70 2.8 Mirrorless version. For now, keep using the 24-105 f/4L for the short term, but budget for the RF 24-70 f/2.8 and sell the 24-105. I'm dead serious. Even though you might not use f/2.8 all the time, it's nice to be able to open up to f/3.2, which is a lot more forgiving than 2.8.

Oh, one more thing...give yourself time to fiddle with your new gear. The way you capture images and focus on things is going to be different with a Mirrorless body. So take a solid Weekend or two to fiddle with your new gear. Shoot everything. After a month or so, you will get better. When it comes to editing, you are going to have to change the way you edit. Sigma Glass tends to add a bit of yellow with a lot of their lenses, and Tamrons add red. But you might be used to this by now since you shoot with both Canon and Sigma Glass. But again, you still need to fiddle.

In the end, I'm thinking you need to cull your images on your drives with RUTHLESS INTENTION. Meaning you do not need 75 photos of your lunch from 5 years ago. Any photos that will never see the light of day, DELETE-DELETE-DELETE. That should save on storage to get your through. Since the R6 only has 20MP, you can make due with what you have. I know this isn't as fun as buying a new computer, but you need a new camera and 70-200. This will make  you money so you can afford to buy a better computer because honestly? It's going to be a year or two before prices stabilize. Inflation is here to stay and the "New Normal" will probably hit in 2023; prices will eventually lower, but won't go back to the ranges we had in year's past. (Translation: a $999 computer won't probably cut it that is "Good for Photo Editing." That price will be in the ballpark of starting at $1500 or so.

Furthermore, if you do go to the R5, you are going to be replacing just about everything. Including ALL of your lenses. I have such "Buyer's Remorse" with my D850. I had no idea of what I was getting myself into with 45.7MP. I should have taken the $4200 or so on a SECOND 24-70 & 70-200 on top of the D850, plus larger media cards, and put it towards a Nikon D6. Speaking of D6, I also have a D4s body. I can tell you that if you ever upgrade to the level of a R3, or any other Professional Body for that matter, anything else that is lower end will feel like a shooting with a toy camera. You have been warned.

Bottom Line: This Shit can get real expensive really quick, and you are at the point I was 5 years ago. I can tell you from personal experience that it's going to be expensive for the next few years. It's not fun. At all. You need to approach things logically that will yield the most revenue and that starts with a new Camera Body and Lenses. Hold off on a new computer, at least for the short term. If you buy things now, and are a legit-on-the-books Photographer, this will be a Tax Write-Off for this year's taxes. Which hopefully will soften the blow so you can afford to buy more gear next year. 

Keep me posted on what you decide. An inquiring mind wants to know!

[Michelle Gifford]

Thanks so much for your in-depth reply. I have decided to rent the R6 over Christmas to actually see side by side quality on my own screen before I purchase. Or I can drive two hours and see one at a bestbuy, but I want to see it with my photos. 
I agree with you on the 24-70. I’ve been eyeing it for a while but made do with my 24-105 because lately I’ve used off camera flash outdoors and haven’t needed wider than f4. I do plan on getting canon R for sure instead of sigma when I purchase the telephoto. That sigma was my first telephoto and has doubled almost tripled in price since I first purchased. I think I got it for $629! At that time I was using a used canon rebel which I eventually upgraded to the Canon 60D, and it eventually turned out to be a piece of crap with NO micro adjustment. I mean why?!! That’s what pushed me into full frame and the 6D mkii. My 6D is considered the lowest grade professional camera (some say not even pro at all), even though with great light and post editing I do produce good images. They just don’t have that pop I see with mirrorless. If I didn’t need the telephoto ASAP, I definitely would give it a few months before upgrading and might even have gone with the 5D mark iv and a new EF telephoto. I am only doing one more indoor shoot before the 1st of the year anyway, so I will at least wait that long to upgrade. Like you said the 70-200 is out of stock everywhere!

Again, I sure appreciate the input, and I will keep you updated of my decision. 

[Brian]

8 hours ago, Michelle Gifford said:

I have decided to rent the R6 over Christmas to actually see side by side quality on my own screen before I purchase.

That's smart. No sense in forking out $4500+ without being 100% sure. Of course, gear that is rented is usually beaten to hell, so keep that in mind.

 

8 hours ago, Michelle Gifford said:

I eventually upgraded to the Canon 60D, and it eventually turned out to be a piece of crap with NO micro adjustment. I mean why?!! That’s what pushed me into full frame and the 6D mkii. My 6D is considered the lowest grade professional camera (some say not even pro at all),

You actually answered your own question. The 60D is a "Pro-sumer" body, just enough features to make you feel important, or "...that's a NICE camera! You must be a Professional Photographer!!!" and they purposely leave enough out to get you to upgrade. See? It's supposed to be that way. The 6D, is a nice sensor mounted in a crap body. Like the Nikon D600/D610 Counter-part, it's a "Bridge" Camera, meaning it's a entry-level full frame. Again, the whole intent is to get you to buy the bigger camera bodies. But forking out $6000+ for the Camera Body that has ALL the features turned on is out of the price-point for the average user. So you end up spending the same amount of money over a period of time with multiple bodies and upgrades vs. if you just bought the Flagship Model to begin with. Either way...you have spent $6000-$7000 over a period of about 5-6 years, right? Not to mention the huge profit with batteries and such; well, if you bought OEM Batteries, etc.

That's another reason that I recommend OEM glass. It will last you 20 years if taken care of properly. Well, it used to. Now everything is crap with planned obsolescence built in.

8 hours ago, Michelle Gifford said:

They just don’t have that pop I see with mirrorless.

New Sensor Technology trumps old. It doesn't have to do with Mirrorless, you are just seeing photos taken with a modern camera sensor and modern processor/ camera body software, that's all. If Mirrorless didn't exist, you'd probably see similar results with a "Canon 5D Mark V." (Or whatever.)

[Michelle Gifford]

On 12/4/2021 at 10:23 PM, Brian said:

That's smart. No sense in forking out $4500+ without being 100% sure. Of course, gear that is rented is usually beaten to hell, so keep that in mind.

 

I just wanted to update you. So remember my sigma 70-200 that is almost 13 years old? Well I contacted Sigma and they are going to clean and calibrate it if they think it can be saved. They said they’ll let me know their thoughts on it’s potential before they operate. I decided to try this to help me limp by until I can afford to go mirrorless and buy a new RF telephoto too. I figure if this works, it will help me save some money since I’m basically going to have to have a new computer soon too and a monitor with my senior citizen iMac (in the other thread). I’ve got to somehow get my telephoto one way or another and get to making money before I start spending into an oblivion. 

[Brian]

Yeah, who knows...they might salvage things. Even if it costs say, $600 for the repair, that's a lot less than a few thousand on lenses that won't be in stock anytime soon. If you need that lens to make money and let's face it...you need lots of money, this is a just cost of doing business. Just remember to save the receipt for this years taxes.

Hopefully they can fix it and you can put it to good use to get cash.

[Michelle Gifford]

56 minutes ago, Brian said:

Hopefully they can fix it and you can put it to good use to get cash.

Definitely need all the cash…