Nikon D810 - images not available on second card

[Krista]

My Nikon D810 is about two weeks old.  I have done three shoots prior to yesterday with no problems.   Yesterday I took a lot of images.  So I assume the small card fills up first and then it is set to overflow to the bigger compact flash card.  While I was taking photos I could see the images on the back of the camera.  When I came home yesterday to download the images I am only able to download the scan disk images (the smaller card).  When I tried to use a card reader on the larger compact flash card it said “the disk you inserted was not readable by this computer”....  and now when i try to look at images just on this compact flash card the camera says “no images” but I wonder if its just not reading the other slot.  Can anyone help me.  I’m having a bit of a heart attack as I have another shoot today.

[Krista]

The nikon D810 takes one “SD cardMemory card” (smaller in size) and one “compact Flash memory card”  (bigger size).  I have figured out that I am missing 712 pictures.  My camera stopped at image 2331 and picked back up at image 3043 (I had inserted another compact flash card.)  Does this mean the card is corrupted.  Its a brand new card that came with the camera.

 

[Krista]

One more thing to add.  I was thinking my compact flash card may not have been formatted - so that’s one thing to consider yet it has never said its not formatted so where does that leave me...

[Brian]

It leaves you seriously screwed.

It sounds like you do not have your D810 setup properly. Perhaps you are shooting RAW + JPEG and the JPEG files might be assigned to the SD slot. I would seriously take a look at your Nikon D810 Manual and read it cover to cover. #KNOWYOURGEAR #NOEXCUSES #YESITISBORING

9 hours ago, Krista said:

So I assume the small card fills up first and then it is set to overflow to the bigger compact flash card.

A: Only if you have it setup that way. By default, the CF card is written to first.

 

Quote

 

From page 86:

When two memory cards are inserted in the camera, you can choose one as the primary card using the Primary slot selection item in the Shooting Menu.

Select SD card slot to designate the card in the SD card slot as the primary card, CF card slot to choose the CompactFlash card.

The roles played by the primary and secondary cards can be chosen using the Secondary slot function option in the Shooting Menu. Choose from

Overflow (the secondary card is used only when the primary card is full)

Backup (each picture is recorded to both the primary and secondary card)

RAW primary - JPEG secondary (as for Backup except that the NEF/RAW copies of photos recorded at settings of NEF/RAW + JPEG are recorded
only to the primary card and the JPEG copies only to the secondary card.)

 

 

So in your case, you want the SD card to be Primary and the CF to be Secondary. Then you choose Overflow from the Secondary Slot Function Option to have the files be written to the CF card once the SD card is filled. But you N-E-E-D to designate the SD slot as Primary first!! These options are in the Shooting Menu.

Now, before you shoot ANY gig, YOU NEED TO FORMAT BOTH OF YOUR CARDS IN CAMERA. The filesystem needs to be setup on BOTH CARDS or else things won't be written to the cards properly. Never-ever format CF/SD cards in your computer.

>>> Those images will go *POOF*  when the camera's buffer dumps the images onto a un-formatted card. <<<

It is not good practice to shoot multiple gigs on the same cards, unless it's back to back sessions at the same place. Even then that practice is questionable. In reality, one shoot = one set of cards. Now I'm sure you are saying, "...but that's expensive." So are lawyer's fees if you get sued. Trust me, extra CF / SD cards are cheaper than legal fees.

So before we continue, how is your camera's menus setup? How is your image recording set? What bit depth is your RAW files set to? Are they compressed or un-compressed? What is your JPEG recording options set to? You want "Optimal Quality" for "JPEG FIne." Yes, you will be shooting in RAW, but it's a good idea to set your JPEG quality just in-case your fat-finger something and you accidentally shoot a session in JPEG. Trust me, it's happened before. Usually followed by a panicked post from a member here.

So I'm here to help. Let's get you straightened out. In addition, what brand of CF / SD cards are you using?

 

 

 

[Brian]

I also had another thought besides the camera settings, still which need to be rechecked. It is possible a bent pin in a card reader could have screwed up your card. The end result is more than likely going to be the same, but there might be another ingredient in this whole mess. 

In fact, the most vulnerable time for a CF card is when you insert and remove the card. A bent or shorted pin in either the camera or reader (or second body) can really screw up your day. I actually remember reading about a Wedding Photographer who had a bent pin in her primary camera, which blew the card. Since she was busy shooting a Wedding, she picked up her backup body and moved the card over from her primary. Well guess what? The now faulty card shorted out her 2nd body. Two dead cameras during a gig within a span of 5 min. Fortunately, her 2nd had a spare camera. My point is, you really need to be aware of the state your cards are in. Especially CF Media. Assume nothing. Even if the card worked fine the last 10 times. 

[Brian]

Oh, I would also not trust any brand other than Sandisk or Lexar. The cheap off-brands that are usually bundled with camera bodies are usually junk. Transend, Promaster and the like are not to be used during professional or paid gigs. Hell, I wouldn't even use them for personal stuff. 

[Krista]

Hi Brian!

So glad you are here to help!  Here’s the good news - I have read my owner’s manual a million times.  The camera is set to record on the smaller Sandisk first and then set to “overflow”on the compact disc.  I always only use one set of cards for each shoot so I am totally on your side and agree with you.  To me it’s not expensive - just smart.  The scan disk is:  Samsung 32 EVO+  80|20 (it’s what came with the camera).  This is the Sandisk that came with the camera.  Sounds like I need to order a better one.  The compact flash - which also came with the camera is SamDisk Extreme 60 mbs/s UDM.

 

Ok so for the shoot that I did today I used the smaller Sandisk that came with the camera and then used an older Lexar compact flash that I used with my Nikon D700.  After the session I downloaded all the images front the scan disk and the compact flash using a card reader.  No problem.  So my thinking is that the card in question is either corrupt or that I did not format it before I used it.  I was pretty sure I formatted it but I must have been wrong.  So now what do I do with this card?  Try a recovery software?

 

Also, here are the answers to your other questions:

1.  Bit depth of RAW files - 14 bit depth, Image size is "RAW L”, 7360x4912; 36.2 M

2.  Compressed or uncompressed?  COMPRESSION IS ON (should I change this?)

3.  Jpeg recording options set to?  When looking at the shooting menu at the highest level is says “JPEG/TIFF recording   ------“  Next level says "JPEG COMPRESSION", "SIZE PRIORITY"

4.  What brand of SC/CF cards - SanDisk and Lexar

5.  My  SC is set to primary slot selection, CP is “overflow"

6. “Perhaps you are shooting RAW + Jpeg?”  I am only shooting RAW.

7.  You need to read your manual - I have read it over and over.

 

I think one thing that caught me here is that you can’t format two cards at the same time which I thought you could...so I did the normal Hold down the trash can and the mode together thing.....so that formatted the Sandisk but I’m thinking it did not do the compact flash card.  Live and learn. 

 

That still leaves the big question... Can I retrieve those photos on my compact flash card?  I could see them in the camera when I was shooting but I can’t see them now.

[Krista]

Thought this might be helpful for anyone else with the double SF/CP - this is from Nikon’s help center:

 

Do the following: keep the 2 buttons down until the word FOR starts blinking in the topdisplay. Release the buttoms and press both of them again a few seconds,
then the memory card has been formated.
This method is valid for all Nikon DSLR, provided that the camera has the 2 buttoms marked "Format".

If there is 2 memory cards in the camera, then it is only the memory card, which has been set to primary card, which will be formatted by using this method.
In this case the best solution is to format the memory card(s) via the menu. 
unquote 
This just for information.

[Brian]

10 hours ago, Krista said:

I have read my owner’s manual a million times.

Yahoo!!! Yippee!!!! Thank YOU!! Nothing bugs me more when a person goes out and buys a fancy camera and doesn't take time to familiarize themselves with the camera's functions and menus. I'm happy to hear you have RTFM.

 

10 hours ago, Krista said:

Thought this might be helpful for anyone else with the double SF/CP - this is from Nikon’s help center:

Nope. Don't do that.

When it comes to formatting, I personally do not use Nikon's Two Button format Strategy. It's not 100% fool-proof. I ALWAYS hit the Menu button, head to the Wrench Icon (Setup Menu) and highlight Format Memory Card in the list, then hit the OK button on the left. From there you should see CF card Slot and SD Card Slot. Use the directional pad to move to the card you want to format and click right on the directional pad. A warning message will appear, highlight YES and then click the OK button on the left side. The camera does a quick format and you should be good to go. Do the same thing for the SD card slot. This method is a bit longer, but ensures you are formatting the correct card completely. That Two-Button Method is a carry-over from when Nikon Bodies had only one slot and like I said, it's not fool-proof. You might think things are formatted, but they aren't. Which might explain things.

10 hours ago, Krista said:

Ok so for the shoot that I did today I used the smaller Sandisk that came with the camera and then used an older Lexar compact flash that I used with my Nikon D700.

Did you by chance format that CF Card in the D810 before using it? I'm thinking this is a yes, but I'm being Capt. Obvious here asking dumb questions. I don't want to leave anything assumed.

1.  Bit depth of RAW files - 14 bit depth, Image size is "RAW L”, 7360x4912; 36.2 M -- Your image size is fine. I would change it to 12-bit. In real-world situations, there isn't a whole lot of difference between 12 and 14 bit. Of course, with the extra two bits of info gives you more "stuff" to play with in ACR, but it's nothing to write home about. Unless you are a complete n00b and blow the shot by 7 stops, then the extra 2-bits might help. For the majority of the people who have the ability to obtain a proper exposure, 12-bits is fine. Sometimes if I'm shooting something like a portrait, I will flip to 14-bit, but it's really overkill. 99.9999999% of the time I'm in 12-bit and recommend you should be too.
2. Compressed or uncompressed?  COMPRESSION IS ON (should I change this?) -- Yes! You want this to be OFF. RAW Files that are 12-Bit Uncompressed is where you want to be and is what I use.
3. Jpeg recording options set to?  When looking at the shooting menu at the highest level is says “JPEG/TIFF recording   ------“  Next level says "JPEG COMPRESSION", "SIZE PRIORITY" -- We are going to set this once and then you will flip this back to RAW. In order to make these changes to the JPEG settings, your camera needs to have JPEG turned on. So set your camera to NEF and JPEG FINE via the QUAL button and rotating the Rear Dial. You should see NEF and FINE on the top LCD. JPEG Compression should be set for OPTIMAL QUALITY and not "Size Priority." You want ALL the bits and pieces of data when it comes to JPEGS in-camera. Color Space should be set to sRGB. Granted, it doesn't matter when it comes to RAW/NEF files, but just in-case you accidentally flip to JPEG, your Color Space is set to sRGB, which is a good thing. In addition, these JPEG settings also affect the JPEG Preview that you see on the rear LCD. You see, that image on the display is NOT the Raw file itself, but the JPEG Preview contained within the RAW file. That's why sometimes Raw images will disappear, but you can still the the image on the LCD...it's the JPEG Preview that can sometimes be recovered. But this isn't a 100% guarantee. After you get you JPEG Settings Sorted, press the QUAL button and Rotate the Rear Dial so that only NEF show on the top LCD.
4. Sandisk and Lexar...Good Choices. For me, I would setup the CF Card to be Primary and the SD card to be secondary. In fact, if you have an important gig that really matters, like a Wedding, I'd insert a larger SD card and use multiple CF Cards. Raw Files would be recorded to various CF cards and JPEG Fine Files would be written to the SD card. This way if anything were to go horribly wrong, you will have SOMETHING to work with. If I were to buy a D810 (...and I'm really tempted) I would use this SanDisk Extreme Pro CF Card with it. In addition, in keeping with the "JPEG Backup" theme, I'd buy this 64GB SanDisk SD card to store your JPEGS. There is also a 32GB Version for $25.
5. Other settings: I'd set your LCD Brightness to -2 and set your camera to LOCK when no cards are preset. This setting should be F11 under the Custom Settings Menu. If you leave this setting at the default, the camera will take the picture, and it will be temporarily stored it in the buffer. You will be able to see the photo, but when the buffer is full and/or tries to dump to the card, your images will go *POOF*  if there is something wrong with the card, or it isn't properly formatted. This sounds eerily similar to what you are describing. Hmm....

 

10 hours ago, Krista said:

That still leaves the big question... Can I retrieve those photos on my compact flash card?  I could see them in the camera when I was shooting but I can’t see them now.

Short Answer: Nope...I'm sorry. 

Long Answer: I'm thinking the "Two-Button Format" is what screwed you up. I have a feeling that the SD card got formatted and the CF card didn't. You could try recovery software, but it's not looking great. I'd say re-shoots are in your future...but I would try recovery software. The Sandisk Cards should have come with a download code for the Sandisk Recovery Software. It's free for a limited time.

[Krista]

Hi Brian!

 

Has been a long morning of going back and forth with Sandisk Recovery but it worked!  I was able to to get back the 713 files that were missing.  As the program was downloading I was going through number by number your suggestions above and have reset everything that you suggested.  I really appreciate the extra effort and time to help me.  I have also ordered another SanDisk Extreme Pro CF card for safe backup.  I do have to say - this camera has been amazing with the shots that I have taken with it so far.  Been lots of fun!  I purchased mine from Adorama and got lots of freebies with it - since everybody’s price was the same essentially.  AND I promise not to short cut the formatting of the cds....I promise to use the menu!

 

Thanks you again for the help!

VICTORY!!!!!

Krista

[Brian]

Whoop! Whoop!! This is when I LOVE TO BE WRONG!! Glad you got your missing files back. 

The reason prices are the same, just like Apple, Nikon controls the minimum prices. The only thing the resellers are allowed to do is throw in freebies.