Are Gaming Laptops reasonable for photo editing?

[Gretchen]

HI there

I bought a gaming laptop 18 months ago because I needed a new photo editing laptop and I knew I wanted one with an SSD drive and a dedicated graphics card and IPS display. I got one and I liked it (still do, running great!) except I was an idiot and bought one with a 256G SSD. 

I've read your posts about what to look for and I found another gaming laptop that seems great. IPS display, 32gig RAM, i7 processor, 1TB SSD. However the price is $1300 and I'm wondering if I'm missing something (because your suggestion was that it should be closer to 1500-2000).

Are laptops just getting cheaper in general? I can post a link to the computer I'm considering but I didn't know if that's allowed or not.

Also, I'm wondering.... if my computer is doing fine, no issues (except that my SSD is so damn small that I'm really doing ALL my editing on an external HD), do I really need to get a new one? 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Gretchen

[Brian]

7 hours ago, Gretchen said:

$1300 and I'm wondering if I'm missing something (because your suggestion was that it should be closer to 1500-2000).

IF you can get a deal, go or it. If that laptop checks all of my "boxes" and is $1300, I'd buy it. (IPS Screen, Dedicated Video & Video RAM, 1TB HD, etc.)

Laptops have been in huge demand due to people being forced to work-from-home due to COVID-19. So the prices were elevated. In reality, $1200-$1500 is a "typical" budget. I just don't want people to think that the $450 laptop from Wally-World is going to cut it.

7 hours ago, Gretchen said:

if my computer is doing fine, no issues (except that my SSD is so damn small that I'm really doing ALL my editing on an external HD), do I really need to get a new one? 

It depends. If the unit is not a "sealed unit" and you can have the HD replaced, by all means...go that route. A 1TB SSD or a m.2 version isn't THAT expensive anymore. We just have to figure out what your laptop has. The only thing that would need to be done, is to clone your old HD onto your new one, and if you don't want to go through all of that trouble, I'm sure a local computer shop offers those services. Or you could try doing things yourself and that depends on your comfort level. 

What laptop make/model are you working with now? Can you take a photo of the bottom and maybe find an access panel and post it here?

7 hours ago, Gretchen said:

my SSD is so damn small

This is what drives me insane with today's laptops. 256GB SSD drives make them "quick" to boot, consume less power which helps battery life, and are very cheap for the Manufacturers to use. A 256GB SSD Drive is meant for "General Computing," NOT Photo-editing. In fact, the majority of people with laptops that are having Photoshop Problems tend to stem from a lack of space on their main Hard Drive. Why? Because it's a stupid 256GB (or smaller) HD. I hate those small HDs just as much as Damien hates Lightroom.

[Gretchen]

Thanks Brian. I should have known about the small HD but at the time I told myself that I could make it work.

And truly, I'm not having problems running anything, but that HD is really small. Last night I spent over an hour cleaning items off my C drive and moving things around, and now I'm up to a whopping 35gb of free space. (insert eye roll here)

Here's a link to the laptop I bought if that helps

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077QXGF6R/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Gretchen]

this is the $1300 laptop I was considering.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088WNQQVQ/?coliid=I1J6XKCRC9880Y&colid=2Z02MIRHN9OK8&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

[Brian]

The laptop you were consider is fine. It checks all the boxes and that is a fair price. 
 

Your current laptop is upgradable, you just have to remove the bottom panel, disconnect the battery and then the existing HD, then install the new one and reverse the process. The toughest part will be cloning one HD to the other. 

This is the drive that I would install: Samsung 860 Pro SSD 1TB  

If you wanted to, you could go higher and get a 2TB model. You would also need to get a Sata to USB adapter and cloning software, like Acronis which would clone and expand your existing HD to the new one. So for roughly $275-ish, you could upgrade your existing HD if you went the 1TB route. 

[Gretchen]

33 minutes ago, Brian said:

The laptop you were consider is fine. It checks all the boxes and that is a fair price. 
 

Your current laptop is upgradable, you just have to remove the bottom panel, disconnect the battery and then the existing HD, then install the new one and reverse the process. The toughest part will be cloning one HD to the other. 

This is the drive that I would install: Samsung 860 Pro SSD 1TB  

If you wanted to, you could go higher and get a 2TB model. You would also need to get a Sata to USB adapter and cloning software, like Acronis which would clone and expand your existing HD to the new one. So for roughly $275-ish, you could upgrade your existing HD if you went the 1TB route. 

Thanks for your advice Brian, You're super helpful!

 

[Gretchen]

57 minutes ago, Brian said:

This is the drive that I would install: Samsung 860 Pro SSD 1TB  

so that link didn't link to a product, but I just searched for it on Amazon and found this. is this correct? And after I buy it then I just take it to a computer person and tell her/him to clone my existing ssd?

On a scale from 1-10, how hard would it be to do it myself? I have changed and added RAM to previous laptops and I've seen the innards of my old laptops when the HD went bad. Just as a reference of my experience level. LOL

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Gretchen

[Brian]

Yeah, that’s the drive. I might have screwed something up or the website is being stupid. 
 

Swapping out a HD for that model is about a 3 on a 1-10 scale. The tough part is cloning the HD. That’s more of a 9. 
 

Here is a video demonstrating the process for your laptop  

 

[Gretchen]

Hi again! I have my local computer dude helping me. I sent him the specs of my computer and this is what he said...

"Ok your D drive is your system recover drive. From what I can see from the specs it uses a stick style SSD drive. And the board does have a spot for a stand hard drive. So what I would do is split the case add the new drive. Formats the new drive and give it a drive letter and poof done. Take less then an hour I'm sure. "

Heres my specs....

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Gretchen

[Brian]

Well, that would give you a larger Data Drive, and that would be “better” than you using an External HD to work off of, but ultimately you really need a larger Main HD. 

Remember how I said cloning your main HD would be a PITA? That’s why your computer guy took the easy way out. Hell, I could help you install that HD and partition/format it for free. 

Stick Drive, he is probably referring to one of these: https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-970-EVO-Plus-MZ-V7S1T0B/dp/B07MFZY2F2/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=pcie+ssd&qid=1608696032&sr=8-3

So the question is, does he offer cloning / duplicating services? He should. Yes, you could go with a 2nd HD, but you aren’t solving your problem: having to deal with a small main drive!! Adding a 2nd HD is the easy way out. Should take less than 30 min to do, but I understand quoting an hour. 

in my humble opinion, I’d do both. Replace the “Stick Drive” and clone it and add a second SSD drive. In case he tells you he can’t do it, some of the better cloning software packages will allow you to create an “Image File,” which is kinda like a really big zip file, but it’s different; it’s made up of a sector-by-sector copy of the source drive. You then use this software to copy the contents over to the new drive, have it adjust the partition sizes (to use the full capacity of the drive,) and it’s like it never happened. Except you have a larger main drive to work with. All your stuff, Photoshop, Actions, email, etc. it’s all in the same place. 

If you do just get the 2nd HD, let me know and we can tweak things to make it “better,” but they are more work-arounds than anything. 

[Gretchen]

Thanks again, @Brian. Finding a reliable computer person is not easy, as people claim they know what they're doing but to a person who knows ZERO, everyone seems to know what they're doing (even if they don't!)

Actually I showed him the Samsung 1TB HD that you suggested and he said, yes that's perfect, we will use that. I also asked him about bumping up my RAM to 32 gig so we're doing that as well. 

I already ordered the SSD you suggested, as well as the RAM this guy suggested. Do you think I ALSO need some additional stick drive? I apologize if I sound stupid.... I'm really relying on people smarter than me to tell me what I need. I'm not afraid to invest money to make my computer work well but I don't want to go nuts. The SSD + Ram was about $350. 

So at this point I should tell my local guy.... what? Should I say, "I think the larger Data drive would be helpful but I think it will be better if we can use this new 1TB drive to make it my Main HD. We will need to clone my existing HD. Can you do that?" Is that what I'd say?

[Brian]

So you still haven’t bought the “Stick Drive” yet and just the one that looks like a regular HD? Here is what I would do:

If you are able, definitely upgrade your laptop’s RAM to 32GB! 
 

Replace the existing main drive with the Samsung 870 drive. You want a large main drive. Clone the existing main HD to the new Stick Drive. 
 

If you already purchased the SSD Drive, keep it and have your guy install it while it’s open. It will only take him 5 minutes or so to set it up. Seriously, it’s not a huge deal for him when it’s already opened up.
 

Even though you will probably be spending around $500 for the whole thing, it’s a lot cheaper than forking out $1400 for a new one and then you have to install everything, which is a time suck. 

[Gretchen]

On 12/23/2020 at 12:49 PM, Brian said:

So you still haven’t bought the “Stick Drive” yet and just the one that looks like a regular HD? Here is what I would do:

If you are able, definitely upgrade your laptop’s RAM to 32GB! 
 

Replace the existing main drive with the Samsung 870 drive. You want a large main drive. Clone the existing main HD to the new Stick Drive. 
 

If you already purchased the SSD Drive, keep it and have your guy install it while it’s open. It will only take him 5 minutes or so to set it up. Seriously, it’s not a huge deal for him when it’s already opened up.
 

Even though you will probably be spending around $500 for the whole thing, it’s a lot cheaper than forking out $1400 for a new one and then you have to install everything, which is a time suck. 

OK I apologize because I know I sound like an incompetent idiot but I know ZERO about this and I'm trying to decipher what you're saying and what Charlie (my local guy) is also saying. He said this Samsung 860 is a stick drive (is that right?). He seemed very interested to just replace the D drive with it because it would be easy. I understand that but honestly, I'm having trouble keeping my C drive from filling up. It's constantly in the red. Right now I have less than 10gb of free space (which is less than 5%). So yeah.... I think I definitely need to get a bigger main drive.

So yes, I have already bought the 1TB SSD drive. I did notice in the photo above that the main drive appeared to be about the size of a deck of cards but the picture of this samsung drive looks smaller and I wondered how it all would fit together but.... I assume this is because I don't know anything about computers.

Charlie's rationale was: if your computer programs are already running fine, then it's just easier to add the new SSD as your D drive. and the extra RAM will really help too. But I'm worried bc I'm basically OUT of space on my C drive. 

I spoke to Charlie tonight and he really SOUNDS like he knows what to do so I'm hopeful. I got referred to him by a friend (who I definitely trust) so I hope everything will be okay.

And if nothing else, I have insurance...... haha

[Brian]

The Samsung 860 is a SSD Drive. It’s the size of a deck of cards. 
 

The Samsung 870 m.2 Drive (Your main drive) is the “Stick Drive.” (To add to your confusion the Samsung 870 has two different kinds, one traditional / deck of cards type and one m.2 NVMe “Stick Drive.”

To clarify, you need this drive to replace your main drive:

Samsung 970 EVO 1TB m.2 (Stick Drive.)

Of course your guy just wants to install a second drive. It easy. It’s a quick way to make some cash. It’s so easy YOU could do it with a little help from me. It will literally take him 10-15 min start to finish. That’s if he goes slow. 
 

But!

“Easy” isn’t going to fix your problem. Your Main Drive is just too small. Period. You will always be dorking around with that drive due to the size limitations. What needs to happen is your main drive needs to be replaced and cloned with it being resized (expanded to a 1TB during the cloning process.) This is a bit of a pain and you need to know what you are doing and have all of the necessary tools to accomplish this. But it’s a normal procedure. Any “Tech Guy” Should be able to complete this task or they should pack up shop now, and stop charging people good money. If your guy is unable to perform the clone, find someone else.
 

To put it another way, it’s like he just wants to do an oil change on your car, but doesn’t want to replace the brakes. Make sense?  A Basic Level 1 Mechanic should be able to perform those two tasks. Just like your computer guy should stop making excuses and replace the damn drive! He just doesn’t want to deal with the hassle of cloning. 

[Brian]

To be honest, this is what needs to be done.
 

1. Open the laptop. 

2. Disconnect the Battery.

3. Install the second drive, the one that looks like a deck of cards. 

4. Boot into Windows and use the Disk Management Wizard to create a NTFS Partiton and format the Dive. Assign the Drive Letter if needed. 

5. Use a software package such as Acronis to create a clone file (of the original main drive) and put it on that new 2nd drive. Create bootable media if needed that contains the cloning software.

6. Then remove the original main drive and set it aside. install the m.2 (Stick Drive.)

7. Then boot off the bootable media that the cloning software creates and then locate the image file that the cloning software created. Restore the clone file from the second drive onto the new main drive. Also have the cloning software resize the partitions while it restores things. This way you will use 100% of your new drive. (Within reason.) 

8. If something goes wrong, you simply re-install the original drive and try it again. By setting it aside, you can always go back in time and un-do things. 

9. Hook up the battery and re-install the bottom case and screws. Of course some laptops will not function unless the battery is hooked up. YMMV. 

Make sense? This process should take about 45min or so. One Hour tops...for the whole thing. 

No excuses. Replace the Damn Drive!! 
 

Of course, my frustration is not directed at you personally.  

[Brian]

Also, can you take a photo of what you purchased and post it here? I’m wondering if you bought the wrong thing. 
 

You need one of these:

The “Stick” m.2 Drive

and one of these:

The “Deck of Cards” SSD Drive.

Both drives should be 1TB. 

[Gretchen]

Sorry, I bought what was listed above in the 4th post. Here are pictures of what I bought.

 

[Brian]

OK. So you bought a RAM upgrade kit and a extra Hard Drive. You still need to purchase the "Stick" Drive in order to replace / upgrade your main Drive.

Here is the current model of the "Stick Drive" that I recommended. It's $149.99:

Samsung (MZ-V7S1T0B/AM) 970 EVO Plus SSD 1TB - M.2 NVMe

Again, this drive will replace your current main "Boot" Drive. I swiped this photo off of Amazon to illustrate what we mean by "Stick."

 

See how similar it looks to the RAM "Sticks" that you just purchased? Only this is a Hard Drive and not RAM.

[Gretchen]

44 minutes ago, Brian said:

OK. So you bought a RAM upgrade kit and a extra Hard Drive. You still need to purchase the "Stick" Drive in order to replace / upgrade your main Drive.

Here is the current model of the "Stick Drive" that I recommended. It's $149.99:

Samsung (MZ-V7S1T0B/AM) 970 EVO Plus SSD 1TB - M.2 NVMe

Again, this drive will replace your current main "Boot" Drive. I swiped this photo off of Amazon to illustrate what we mean by "Stick."

 

See how similar it looks to the RAM "Sticks" that you just purchased? Only this is a Hard Drive and not RAM.

OK so do I need the original Samsung 860 thing also? Or should I return it? Just wondering why you suggested it. 

Edited December 28, 2020 by Gretchen

[Brian]

Well, it could be your internal Data Drive. A "D" Drive or even an "E" Drive. It could house your photos and such. It will also make cloning easier. That said, you need the 970 EVO Plus m.2 Drive. You could return the Samsung 860 if you wanted to. It's up to you. Adding a second HD while it's open isn't a big deal, but it's up to you if you want to spend the extra money to keep it.

[Gretchen]

OK boss. I can get on board with that.

So, looking at my computer.... everything on it functions well. Its manufacture date was April 2019 so not terribly old.

After the updates, i will have 32 gb RAM, and If I have the 970 drive AND the 860 drive, THEN would you say I'm set to have a pretty decent computer for at least another few years?

I have to be honest - I love PCs. I've never ever had a problem with them. (not saying they are invincible but I am happy so far). And I know they don't last forever but my most recent reasons for upgrades to new laptops were because of needing a newer OS or more space.

I guess my final question, so I can relieve you of my unending confusion (LOL) is: should this machine now last me a while?

[Brian]

4 hours ago, Gretchen said:

THEN would you say I'm set to have a pretty decent computer for at least another few years?

Yes. For the most part. Unless you do something crazy in the near-future and get a 60MP camera body. The more MP your camera has, the more horsepower is required from your computer. But you should see a big improvement, especially with 32GB of RAM and a faster m.2 Drive (Main Drive.) Of course, it's a laptop...and most of the time you will get about three years or so out of them. the Lithium-Ion batteries only last about that long. If you want something to last around 7 years, in my honest opinion, you need a desktop computer.

Right now your HD is so small that it's killing your performance in a big way. It's just too small and Windows / Photoshop are fighting for resources. It's not just the PS Scratch Disk; Windows has its own and that's called Pagefile.sys. If you only have 20GB free (or whatever) your laptop will run at a snails pace. A 250GB HD is meant for General Computing and not anything Photoshop related. General computing means:

• Wasting Time on Facebook
• Paying Bills
• Watching Netflix
• Answering E-Mail
• Updating Spreadsheets

Typical "Normal Stuff" that you would do on a daily basis. As soon as you throw Photoshop in the mix, you need more resources.

[Gretchen]

OK so. I feel like I'm about to jump off a cliff. haha

I bought the Samsung 860. And I bought the extra RAM. And now I also bought the Samsung 970. I've got all of it ready to give to my computer guy.

I have my appointment on Monday to hand over my laptop.

**SWEATING BULLETS**

[Brian]

The hardware installation is the easy part. It’s the cloning of the existing drive is the hard part. This is a normal procedure and isn’t out of the ordinary these days. 
 

For peace of mind, backup anything important that is on your main drive this weekend. Stuff you can’t live without. That said, if everything goes smoothly as I’m predicting, you will have nothing to worry about.