New editing station----PC Tower VS Laptop, and Monitor suggestion

[MHalloran]

Brian,

I see many of these questions have been answered here and there, so please forgive me for being redundant.  I have an 8 year old Dell XPS L 702 X laptop.  It is finally getting too slow for me to enjoy editing photo's.  I has 500 gb hardrive, 8gb memory RAM, 64 bit windows 7 operating system....it is not a SSD drive, and doesn't have a great video card with it's own memory.  If someone somewhere could record or write a tutorial on the perfect editing station....I am sure that would sell well.  Thus the redundancy of some of the questions in this forum.  I perform all the required maintenance on my PC.  In fact I still have my old Windows 95, and XP towers that work well !   Well mostly well, they are outdated on many things once you connect to the internet.

I've been told defragging a SSD HD is NOT something that should be performed. 

This laptop is actually still very functional on most things, it is just the opening of Bridge and Photoshop at the same time is murder....and it doesn't take very long until one of the  program freezes, and it is too the point now that I dread editing my photography.  It takes a few minutes to turn on now, and I keep the loading programs to a minimum.  So you can tell I'm not a pro, I'm a hobbyist, with some future aspirations.  I would like your opinion and guidance on setting up a new station....that a pro would like and be comfortable using.  When I look over the site I see many recommendations....but it's difficult for me to pull it all together.

I've always done my computing on PC's, and I am comfortable with that.  I do most of my editing in my office, and the current laptop is good enough for a few photo's on the road.

I plan on upgrading to a really good monitor, with HD connections, and a great computer of some kind.....but I want to do it right.....I keep my computing clean, organized, and fast.

In the landscape business that I manage, I have been taking care of the Windows 7 linked tower PC's for about 10 years, with many users that like to download crap....and they still run like a charm, and start up twice a fast as my giant laptop with the 17" monitor.

 

Just a couple of questions to point me in the right direction on the computing and monitor end, I realize there is alot of experience and detail in setting up an editing office.....and that one thing, opens the door to another thing....and I have perused the soft proofing, lighting, wide gamut, color profile, calibration articles.....which is just the tip of the iceberg....but slow lumbering equipment is just killin me....and I don't want to purchase something that might become slow and lumbering when I open Bridge, Raw, Photoshop....all while having some tutorials and learning programs in the background.

 

1. Would you do another laptop, or a PC Tower, will a decent tower with a solid state hard drive perform better than a laptop?

2. Do you recommend an Solid State hard drive?

3. I see that in Damiens articles on monitors  no one ever recommends this one link posted below.....I've digested the articles on soft proofing, lighting in a room, and gamut.  It's still difficult,

Do you have a recommended preference? 

 

https://www.amazon.com/BenQ-Photographer-SW2700PT-Calibration-Controller/dp/B012UNOCJY/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1524241566&sr=8-3&keywords=photography+monitor

 

I appreciate your guidance and opinions, thank you.

 

Michael Halloran

 

 

 

 

[Brian]

16 hours ago, MHalloran said:

I've been told defragging a SSD HD is NOT something that should be performed. 

CORRECT!! NEVER-EVER-EVER-EVER....LIKE EVER!

NEVER DEFRAG A SSD DRIVE!! DOING SO IS VERY BAD FOR THE SSD DRIVE.

The way the data is stored on the SSD drive is completely different than a traditional HD. So even if you were to do it, it wouldn't work like it did on a traditional HD. Plus defraging will kill the SSD drive prematurely.

I will never recommend a laptop for photo-editing. Culling and organizing...fine, but for editing, I will tell you to get a desktop and a nice IPS-based monitor. Of course everyone wants to be portable these days and I got tired of arguing. If you ware going to get a laptop, I'd look towards the ASUS Republic of Gamers line. Basically, you are looking for a gaming laptop, not a cheapie sub-$500 laptop, with a IPS screen. That cost will run you between $1000-$1500, give or take a few hundred. 

A Solid State Drive if fine for a primarily drive, the only real problems I have with them is that most folks buy one that is way too small in terms of capacity. You want a 500GB SSD drive at the MINIMUM, and personally, I'd recommend a 1TB Drive.  Yes a SSD Drive is MUCH faster and will breathe new life into that old laptop but Windows 7's days are numbered. All updates / support will end Jan 7, 2020 and all versions of Server Windows 2008 / 2008 R2 will no longer be supported Jan 14, 2020. It's like how XP was put out to pasture and forgotten about. So going forward, Windows 10 will be your world. If you were to get anything today, I'd recommend getting Windows 10. So buying a SSD Drive for $450 and then a copy of Windows 10 for a few hundred...it doesn't make that much sense in upgrading your old laptop. Plus, there might not be drivers and such available.

If you do decide to install a SSD Drive, I'd make sure you can create recovery media to install a fresh copy on your new drive. Manufacturers are funny these days and you'd be surprised on just how difficult it is to do a recovery on a new HD. Some computers/laptops will not let you do it at all.

As for a computer:
i5 or i7 CPU

16GB RAM at a Minimum / 32GB Preferred

1TB HD at a Minimum / Bigger is always preferred

A video card that has its own dedicated video memory, going forward I'd recommend one with a DisplayPort over a HDMI version. Though either is fine, it's just when you get to the 4K range that you really want a DisplayPort connection. Video Memory: 2GB is fine, 4GB is recommended and 8GB is awesome / more future proof.

That BenQ monitor. It looks interesting and from what I can tell from the comments, it's a bit of a pain to calibrate. Dell Monitors with IPS screens are a pretty good value, and NEC, HP, Eizo monitors are also ones to look at. 

[MHalloran]

Thank you Brian...those recommendations are a big help!

So I intend to keep my old 7i core laptop as it is...and use a a communication device and standard computing of business and household.

I intend to purchase a stand alone PC for editing, with the correct ports for monitor.

Are there any other pc configurations you might recommend I look at while I’m putting the pc together?  I’ve always purchased Dell...and I see you recommend them mostly in your advise.

I think I’ll skip the monitor I was looking at because I noticed in the comments the calibration problems as well.

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

 

 

[Brian]

I recommend Dell XPS line because it's easy and accessible, as most people in this forum can purchase one. The $1099.99 version is the one I'd get myself, though I would upgrade to Windows 10 Pro if it were me. Honestly, I went tweaking things on that Dell and the cost ends up being $1784.99 as I tend to buy with a 7-8 year lifespan in mind.

If someone reading this does not like Dell, that's fine...just configure a similarly equipped computer from another manufacturer. Here is a Dell U2415 Monitor that is easy on the budget and is a good value for photo editing. 

[Brian]

5 hours ago, MHalloran said:

So I intend to keep my old 7i core laptop as it is

You could try purchasing a 500GB SSD drive, or better yet a 1TB. If you can restore the laptop to it's default configuration, now is the time to do it while Windows 7 updates are still available. There is a world of difference on replacing the main traditional HD to a SSD.

[MHalloran]

1 hour ago, Brian said:

You could try purchasing a 500GB SSD drive, or better yet a 1TB. If you can restore the laptop to it's default configuration, now is the time to do it while Windows 7 updates are still available. There is a world of difference on replacing the main traditional HD to a SSD.

That's a great idea !  I think I found compatibles at Crucial at a reasonable price.   Thank you again.  I might run a  tower configuration by you on this forum if that is permitted.

[MHalloran]

1 hour ago, Brian said:

 

If someone reading this does not like Dell, that's fine...just configure a similarly equipped computer from another manufacturer. Here is a Dell U2415 Monitor that is easy on the budget and is a good value for photo editing. 

I saw on some reviews, that everyone on the BENQ monitor was complaining about light bleed.  The brightness on the edges on monitors.....and on this link it says that is normal for IPS monitors....do you have an opinion ?  If I'm getting to picky, and it's pretty common on monitors just let me know...... 

[Brian]

It happens, but the Dell Monitors that I’ve recommended and used in real-life haven’t been that much of an issue. 

Personally, I’d skip that BenQ monitor. That’s due to the difficulty of calibration and I’ve replaced more than one BenQ displays for customers in my time.  

[MHalloran]

On 4/23/2018 at 4:00 PM, Brian said:

You could try purchasing a 500GB SSD drive, or better yet a 1TB. If you can restore the laptop to it's default configuration, now is the time to do it while Windows 7 updates are still available. There is a world of difference on replacing the main traditional HD to a SSD.

I’ve been researching this...and nearly all sources recommend cloning the old HD because of the way Dell partitions some of its help and automatic systems....do you favor a clone or a clean install ?

[Brian]

Cloning can be a bit tricky, especially if you try to clone to a USB device, meaning using a USB to SATA cable/adapter that attaches to your new hard drive. With a laptop, you don't have the luxury of multiple SATA ports. What you will have to do is use cloning software to backup the existing HD, to a regular USB drive. Then you install the new SSD Drive. After that you boot off a CD / Thumbdrive load the cloning software and restore from your clone file. Years ago, I used a program called "Ghost," from Symantec, now I've used a program called Acronis. Oh! It helps if you put your clone file in a directory on your EHD, rather than the root folder.

What happens is that the manufacturers have a partition that is just for recovery, not recovery to a new drive, but to reformat / re-install the OS and get the computer back to "Day 1." Since your computer has some years on it, the recovery media might create DVDs or even have the option for a Thumbdrive to be used. I'd have a 16GB Thumbdrive handy if you have that option. Sometimes it might take multiple discs or Thumdrives. (Or Pin Drives, Jump Drives, etc. I've heard them called all different names. Just like Soda/Pop/Coke, whatever.)

As to what do I prefer? Either. Honestly, if you could do a fresh install of the OS and then run all the Windows updates, will give you the most stable platform. Time-wise, this way will take the longest. If you go the cloning route, you will have an exact copy of your current HD, along with any issues that it might have. That said, you could have this whole process done in a few hours, IF everything goes smoothly; I've had several instances of wasting all day trying to clone a stupid drive (the software doesn't recognize a drive on a USB to SATA cable,) other times I bang things out in an hour or so. It's all relative and no set way to do things.

[MHalloran]

Well Brian, I hate to overstep my bounds in this forum.  I know with the  photography forum that's where the learning is geared.  You folks do an excellent job of coaching people to get where they need to be to actually learn the great things Damien and all of you do with photography.  That's the key, and I know it's just human nature for us users, to over simplify and ask every little minutia of problems.   I will say, since I started this inquiry, at Damien's suggestion.  I have purchased a new dell Monitor at a great price.  I got it from BEST BUY, so I have 45 days on it....which I rarely return things.  U2518D Dell anti glare.

I have also purchased a Dell which had a price drop since last week to the low 1700.00's 

XPS 8930

XPS 8930 Base

Processor

8th Generation Intel® Core™ i7-8700 6-Core Processor (12M Cache, up to 4.6 GHz)

Operating System

Windows 10 Home 64bit English

Monitor

If accessories are purchased, they may ship separately

Memory

32GB, 2666MHz, DDR4 up to 64GB (Additional memory sold separately)

Chassis Options

XPS 8930, Mainstream Chassis (460W)

Hard Drive

1TB M.2 PCIe x4 SSD

Video Card

NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1070 with 8GB GDDR5 Graphics Memory

CD ROM/DVD ROM

Tray Load DVD-RW Drive (Reads and Writes to DVD/CD)

Sound

Integrated 5.1 with WAVE MAXX Audio® Pro

Wireless

802.11ac + Bluetooth 4.2, Dual Band 2.4&5 GHz, 1x1

Keyboard

Dell KB216 Wired Multi-Media Keyboard English Black

Mouse

6 Button Laser Mouse

 

So you folks have tutored me, in the direction that I have been planning to go for 8 months.......it's not money I wasn't going to spend !   I used you as part of my research, and for that I appreciate you being there......your whole group.  Now by the second week of May I can get back to doing what I do well.   I just have to use you one more time......I can't seem to get the research on up grading my HDD to an SSD correct....  I would prefer to find somewhere a step by step instructional on how to upgrade with a CLEAN install, but I keep getting all these things that people  jumped in and didn't disable the RAID....and windows 7 did something or other because it allocated....blah blah.

 

Then Crucial has this thing, that makes everything look so easy.......but then again is the RAID thing....which no one tells you about.  I'm keen on upgrading from an HDD to an SSD....even more so, since I performed the complete DELL SYSTEM check related to this laptop, and twice it told me your laptop hard drive is doomed, it isn't passing all of the tests, and get things off of it now.  I'm para-phrasing of course.  I'm up to the task of installing.........but I cannot find a decent tutorial on a clean install, on the DELL.

 

Here is the Crucial instructions;    https://assets.microncpg.com/content/dam/crucial/campaigns/c18/documents/c18-ssd-install-guide-en.pdf

 

In which I'll inherit a few things that PC's get over 8 years of usage.

 

What to you think of those instructions, and do you know of any guide that will give one a clean install of Windows 7 on an SSD?     No more long questions....I give you my word.

[Brian]

On 4/29/2018 at 5:38 PM, MHalloran said:

would prefer to find somewhere a step by step instructional on how to upgrade with a CLEAN install, but I keep getting all these things that people  jumped in and didn't disable the RAID....and windows 7 did something or other because it allocated....blah blah.

You don't have to worry about RAID. You have a 7 year old laptop and chances are, it doesn't support RAID. What those folks are talking about is that the RAID Drivers will be needed in order for the Cloning software to properly "see" the drive. Fancy servers have that driver software built into the RAID controllers; lower end models...you need a CD to boot off of to get the drivers in memory before using cloning software. Again, I'm 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999% sure this is not an issue for you. 

Oh, what does RAID mean?

Redundant Array of Independent Disks. Basically, it's two or more hard drives working in unison to provide redundancy; meaning that if one drive fails the other automatically picks up the slack and you can keep operating. (RAID 1, RAID 5, RAID 6, RAID 10.) RAID 0 does not have true redundancy as if one drive dies the other one goes along with it. Why have a RAID 0? Short Answer: Speed. Having two traditional Hard Drives with spinning disks gives you double capacity and lots of read/write speed. For example, two 4TB hard drives become a fast single 8TB drive.  They are great if you are editing video and use a RAID 0 drive as your cache / temporary files drive. The other levels of RAID have data redundancy, so if a drive fails it's usually not catastrophic. How much redundancy depends on which method / level of RAID you choose, AND how many hard drives you choose. I could go on-and-on about RAID and data striping and mirroring, but that would totally de-rail this thread.

Those Crucial instructions are pretty much what you do. It seems that they are using Acronis, which is a program that I've used, though I use a version that is a bit older and not as fancy looking. Unfortunately, there isn't ONE set of instructions that will work 100% of the time. Each manufacturer has their own way of doing things and your results will vary. Yes, I know this is a cop-out answer, but it's the truth. The real tricky part boils down to the USB to SATA cable, I like using the ones that have an external power source. Here is what you do:

1. Hook up the Red Sata Cable to the port on the adapter, and then attach the other end to the data port on the SSD drive.
2. Then attach the power connector to the SSD drive, leave the power brick un-plugged for now. Hook the other end of the power cable from the SSD Drive to the power brick.
3. Attach the USB cable to your laptop
4. AFTER everything is attached, THEN plug in the power brick. In a few moments, Windows should start complaining about the new drive and ask what do you want to do with it. 

Don't do anything, continue with the Crucial Instructions. Cloning a drive really depends on the software, so I can't give you step-by-step instructions, that said, the Crucial Acronis software seems pretty straightforward. If it asks you if you want to resize the drive during cloning, (especially if the SSD Drive is larger,) tell it YES.

Your Dell monitor is fine and is one I would purchase. You definetely want to use a DisplayPort Cable to get the most out of your monitor in terms of Clarity, Color Accuracy, Contrast, Sharpness, etc., though HDMI isn't bad either. If I had one port to choose from going forward, it's DisplayPort. How can you tell if it's a Display Port? It is very similar looking to a HDMI port, but only has one angled corner. HDMI has two angled corners. Here is your display and the port just to the right of the screw is a DisplayPort.

 

 

As for your computer configuration, It's fine. Personally, I would upgrade to Windows 10 Pro while you have the chance, but that's just me.

[Brian]

In order to get a "Clean" install of the OS on your new drive, you are going to have to look for a Dell Utility of some sort that allows you to create the OS DVD and Driver DVD. Sometimes it will allow you to use a Thumbdrive instead of DVDs. Again, this depends on your computer and varies from model to model. You might not even have a choice to create the media. Head to your start menu and poke around in anything labeled "Dell" or "Utilities." See if there is a "Create Recovery Media" or something along those lines.

For the sake of argument, let's say you are able to create the recovery media. You simply install the SSD Drive, boot off the OS DVD and follow the instructions. You might want to take a photo with your phone of the Windows 7 license key, which is usually located below the battery compartment, or on the bottom of the laptop. You might have to enter it when prompted, other times the OS CD will read a special chip on the motherboard and put it in for you. After the OS is installed, it might ask you for disk 2 or 3, which loads the drivers. Sometimes it will boot to Windows and then you will have to run the install program off the driver DVD. If it were me? I would just restore the network driver, get connected to the internet and head to support.dell.com. Type in your Serial Number or Service Tag and look for Drivers / Software. Download the latest and greatest drivers. Oh, if you want data files off your old HD, simply use the SATA to USB adapter to hook up your original HD. That cable will turn your internal HD into an external HD.

Though, when it's all said and done, cloning your HD is WAY easier than doing a fresh install, thought doing a fresh install is more stable, albeit more time consuming, as after you get the drivers installed, you will need to run Windows Update multiple times. I'm sure there is probably around 200GB or so worth of Windows Updates.

[MHalloran]

Thank you Brian.....send me your bill !  :-)

[MHalloran]

So, when I purchased this ole laptop, I opted to get DVD's of the "REINSTALLATION DVD WINDOWS 7 HOME PREMIUM" and "DRIVERS AND UTILITIES DVD".....I think I am hearing, that replacing the old hard drive is as simple as installing the new SSD, and then booting from the DVD and re-installing the Windows 7....and simply installing the Network driver.....

 

Going to DELL to update the newest drivers for the other utilities is a piece of cake....other than doing Windows updates a clean install should be that simple ?

[Brian]

Yep.

Since you have the media, that's all is should take. Install Windows 7, get the initial drivers setup, then depending on how far back you are with Windows 7, you could head to support.dell.com and enter your Service Tag, download the Dell Scanning Tool and install the drivers. However, you might need to install some Windows 7 updates to get it to Windows 7 Service Pack 1 before installing the Dell stuff. Basically, you'll have to figure things out. It's one way or the other. Either it's Dell Drivers via the website then Windows Updates or vice-versa. Either way it will get you where you want to be.

Time is the real killer. Windows 7 has LOTS of updates and I would use a hard-wired Ethernet connection, meaning plug your laptop directly into your router / cable modem to obtain the fastest download speeds.

[MHalloran]

Success!  Yes Brian.....lots of windows updates.....hours even with an Ethernet  connection.....worth it though.

Thank you for the coaching.