what lens next?

[Renski00]

Hi Brian

I have a canon 650D and im at a cross roads because i dont know if i want a bigger chunky FF camera (invest in that) or go another lens that allows me to go wider. I have tamron 24-70 and canon 70-200 F4 and still struggle in small spaces to get wide enough for group shots without sometimes being pressed hard up against a wall.......

I dont know whether to upgrade camera, which i would like to one day, but i love how light my 650 is or for now just get another lens.........i like the fixed F lenses.

Advise on what i should consider?

Im a hobby photographer only taking pics of my family.

TIA

Edited May 1, 2016 by Renski00

[Samantha LaRue]

I guess the first question is, what's your budget?  

 

[Brian]

If you are going to stay with a crop body, I'd get this one:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/351542-USA

That said, this lens is more of an investment: 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1051475-USA

 

The problem with crop bodies and is you lose the "wide," due to the angle of view change. Your 24-70 acts like a 38mm - 112mm lens would on a FF body. Believe it or not, 24mm is "wide," you just need a FF body to take advantage of it. 16mm acts more like 25.6mm on a crop body, after the Angle of View Change 

So two choices: Lens or FF Body.

I personally recommend a 5D Mark III if you were to upgrade. Since size might be an issue, and you might stick with a crop body, the 10-22 is in your future. If you do upgrade to FF, you already have a "Wide" lens, the 24-70. 

[Renski00]

Thanks Guys,

I dont think i need a 5d III

How would i benefit from FF? apart from the change in how my lens works............id look at a 6D .......otherwise a 7D or 70D...........but then i still need the wider lens.........i love fixed Aperture so thanks for the tip on the lens

I still want camera to be portable, want the quality in low light.

For outlay wise i think it would be about the same for updated crop camera 70d  + lens or just go for the FF 6d and keep current lenses.........so this is my cross road

 

 

Edited May 2, 2016 by Renski00

[Brian]

The 70D isn't well regarded. You are better off with a 7D 

Your problem is like shopping for a tripod. There are three choices, Lightweight, Cheap, or Sturdy.

Pick Two.

Likewise, you want a lens that's portable, lightweight and has a fixed aperture. 

Pick Two.

i understand wanting fixed aperture. All of my current zoom lenses that I used are f/2.8 and there is a difference. 

Another lens came to mind. How about picking up a used Canon EF-S 17-55 f/2.8? That is the "24-70" for crop bodies. The only downside is that it's a lens that is meant for crop bodies ONLY. On the upside, it's similar to the Canon 16-35 f/4's focal range and has f/2.8 at your disposal. 

KEH has a "Like New" 17-55 for $619:

https://www.keh.com/shop/canon-ef-s-17-55-f-2-8-is-usm-standard-zoom-lens.html

[Brian]

If I had to choose between a Canon 5D Mark II and a 6D, it's a 60/40 split towards the 6D. 

The 6D is newer tech, but is an entry level FF body. I don't like spending $1400 on an "Entry Level" ANYTHING. It's meant to be outgrown. That said, since you are more of a hobbyist, it might fit your needs. 

The benefit to FF is the amount of coverage that the sensor records. Since its physically larger, more "stuff" is photographed. It has a wider angle of view and has a more natural 35mm look to it. There isn't a AOV change, so a 50mm lens acts like a normal wall-around lens, instead of a portrait lens. For that look on a FF body, you'll need a 85mm lens. In addition noise is easier to deal with, but crop bodies have come along way in that dept. I also personally feel that FF sensors produce a "cleaner" look to my eyes. Photos are more natural looking and less digital. But this is my own opinion. 

[Renski00]

thanks so much this is awesome feedback and lots to consider

[Samantha LaRue]

On 5/2/2016 at 3:38 AM, Renski00 said:

apart from the change in how my lens works............id look at a 6D .......

 

I have a 6d and I love it. I don't see myself outgrowing this camera anytime soon. I think maybe in a couple years when there are some new models released, but for now it suits my needs nicely.  

[Renski00]

Hi Brian 

i still haven't upgraded and want to do it this year. I've decided I want a camera. I need better ISO I'd love more focus points. 

 

6d mk iI is being released hopefully. What do you think of specs? Or should I still go high end crop sensor. 

Circumstances havent changed. Still just taking pics of family as per OP

[Brian]

A 6D Mark II, I haven't heard much, though I haven't looked either. What really bothers me with a 6D is the focus points. The strongest / most reliable one (cross-type) is the center focus point. So unless Canon does something dramatic in the focusing system dept., I still won't recommend one.

It's 2017, not 2005. 

[Renski00]

Thanks Brian!

[Renski00]

On 03/05/2016 at 11:40 PM, Samantha LaRue said:

I have a 6d and I love it. I don't see myself outgrowing this camera anytime soon. I think maybe in a couple years when there are some new models released, but for now it suits my needs nicely.  

Have you looked into the MKii 6D yet?

i Have waited 6 months for ar elease date and its almost here.

Still dont know 7D MKii or 6D MKii - Still tossing p crop or FF............i think i want to try FF- will wait for pricing between these 2 bodies.

ANyone else tossing up between 7D or 6D?

[Brian]

I think I'm going to push this thread to the land of misfits for others to chime in.

[Brian]

@Renski00 wants to know, 7D Mark II or 6D Mark II?

[Brian]

@Renski00: It looks like this thread hasn't gotten the attention that I was looking for. One of the websites that I follow is run by a gentleman named Thom Hogan. When I have questions, that's who I go to. Anyway, he just wrote an article about the Canon 6D Mark II:

http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/what-to-make-of-the-canon.html
 

From the article:

Quote

"...most of the rest of the 6D Mark II is pretty much the same as the original, within a design wiggle or waggle and a technology update or two. You get WiFi with Bluetooth and NFC, plus built-in GPS..."

 

So according to Thom, the "Mark II" is just a general update to the 6D Mark I. It's still an entry-level FX body and for some, that's all they need. As for which one of the two, it depends on what you are shooting. Long Term, going full frame might be a better bet, as the manufacturers seem to be investing more effort into that line. (I'm looking at you Nikon! Yes, I know you just released the D500 and D7200, but what about DX lens refreshes? I'm not talking about the plastic kit-lenses either, but I'm digressing.") Anyway it seems for the last couple of years the manufacturers have been pushing full frame. It's almost as if they are saying, "Full Frame = Good / Professional" "Crop = Bad / Amateur," because in reality, they haven't had anything major/earth shattering in the crop camera dept for awhile, so they have been pushing full frame.

As to which one? It depends on what you shoot. Landscapes? Birds in Flight? Weddings? Portraits? Planning on doing this professionally or as a hobbyist? That's what you should be asking yourself, WHAT do you plan on using the camera for? Because today's camera bodies, whether they are crop or full frame...ALL of them take great photos. It just boils down to the features you are looking for. (Focusing Systems, High ISO, Dynamic Range, Weather-Sealing, etc. etc.)

[Renski00]

Thanks Brian, I think my notifications were turned off from this thread so i never knew that you replied.

I'm always going to be hobbiest, but photography is my only hobby so i want to take it seriously, Photographing my kids and family and maybe one day a chance to try landscapes when i get a bit more time up my sleeve.

ISO is important, focus points, fast focus the  thing that i just cant decide is if i do really need a Full frame for what i do -  would i get more out of my lenses if i did have full frame

 

[Brian]

I re-read this post. Since you already have a 24-70 and a 70-200, and the 24-70 isn't "wide" enough, then you are really looking at going full frame. You already have full frame lenses and your 24-70 is acting like a 38.4mm - 112mm. In order to get close to the angle of view that 24mm does on a full frame sensor, you will need a 16mm focal length on a crop sensor.

So with Canon-based lenses, you are looking at a Canon 6D Mark II for $1999 OR IF YOU HAVE THE CASH NOW, THE 5D MARK III IS ON SALE UNTIL MIDNIGHT TONIGHT!!! It's $2299 and you can purchase it between 8:01PM and 11:59PM Eastern Time. B&H is closed until 8PM due to Yom Kippur. The instant discount ends today.

I really wouldn't get a 70D or whatever. If you really want to lower the cost, the lowest Canon crop body that I'd recommend is a Canon 7D Mark II for $1349. I know this stuff is expensive and a lot of folks just do not have a few thousand to drop on camera gear, I just hate people wasting money. I've been in the same boat, needed / wanted gear, buy the _________ to hold me over, only to have buyer's remorse a few months later. It's not worth spending the money thinking it will be "just as good as..." or "what I can afford right now..." it's better to get what you want and will last the long term. I still say a 5D Mark III will hold you over for YEARS, even though it's the most expensive recommendation that I've given. Sure you could buy a $1400 body now, and then another $1400 body in a few years, or spend $2300 once and have the same body last over the same period. Something to think about. 

[Renski00]

Thanks Brian, All these thoughts do go around in my mind. Ive def made up my mind ill go full frame now after reading more over night. Ill check out the 5d option. i def dont want buyers remorse and wants something i can grow into over the years without needing to upgrade. i appreciate your help

[Brian]

Another thought. If you want "wide" on a crop sensor and have limited cash, then you could purchase a Canon 17-55 f/2.8 IS lens, which is a "24-70" for crop bodies. The only downside is that it's a crop body lens only so if you do go to full frame, you'll need to sell it or it becomes a paperweight. 

I totally know what you mean about being against a wall. I was shooting a wedding once with my D300s and a rented 24-70 / 70-200. I had to stand in the kitchen, shoot through the door in order to get wide enough for the bouquet toss. At that point I had to make a business decision and buy a used Nikon 17-55 f/2.8. It served me well over the years and helped me make money. Now I shoot full frame and own a 24-70 & 70-200.