Prints are grey

[LSSmith]

Good morning, from South Georgia!

I had thought that my monitor was properly calibrated. (Yes, I used test prints and the slight differences were tolerable.) Now, however, I've received prints back from the lab and they all, to varying degrees, look dull and grey (as if someone put an opaque grey filter over the images). 

It was an outdoors shoot, divided into two types of location: brilliant full sun and under a graffiti-marked bridge. 

1. The images taken in full sun look markedly less grey and de-saturated than those taken under the bridge, but they are noticeably less brilliant (to me) than the digital images.

2. I double-checked that the color profile at the bottom of each image read sRGB IEC61966-2.1, in both PSD and JPG. They all do.

3. During the retouching process, I did adjust (generally downward) the saturation levels of some of the photos. (For the record, desaturation was applied only to the skin colors via masking, for those images where I felt it was necessary. The desaturation was NOT applied to things like the brilliant graffiti colors, which look dull and lifeless in print.) I have compared the prints of saturated and desaturated images to the on-screen versions. The saturation, or lack thereof, does not seem to have influenced the greyness of the finished print.

4. As part of prepping my files for printing, I used the soft-proofing profile provided by my lab (miller labs), to make sure that what I was seeing on my screen was what I was going to get in print. The images looked fine in soft-proof.

5. I triple-checked to make sure that the color-profile of the images was sRGB IEC61966-2.1, before I proceeded to crop, sharpen, save to jpg for the prints.

6. After I received the pictures from the lab, I did what I always do: check them in the white light of the day. The grey overcast look was readily apparent, even in the full-sunlight-shot images.

7. I brought the images into my retouching space, pulled up the digital images in Photoshop and compared prints to digital files. Definitely a grey overcast over the entirety of the printed images.

8. I searched through your resources, hoping to find an answer to my specific problem. Either there is no such answer, or I've not worded my query properly enough to get an answer.

9. My retouching space is, literally, a closet, lit with one LED bulb. The light-blocking drapes are always drawn closed over the windows of the room when I'm retouching. The bulb is a 6 W, 4000 K, frosted bulb, if that is of any use for you. I've been retouching in this lighting ever since I started your RAW class, close to two years ago.

10. In reviewing my notes above, I wonder if I'm dealing with a brightness issue with my screen. The current calibration has the white balance set at D50 and the white luminance set at 90. These values were set during the calibration phase with test prints to check the results. The monitor is due for its monthly recalibration.

11. I have yet to test whether the digital image looks the same on a different platform/device (Facebook on my phone, for instance), to see if that can reveal any clues as to the nature of the problem.

I am, unfortunately, under a time crunch. The client expects to have prints this week, and I have to deliver. This means that I'm going to have to test a few potential "holistic" solutions, while waiting for your response.

If you could please offer some advice on how best to solve this issue, I'd appreciate it. I hope that I've provided enough of the right kind of information to make your task easier. If not, please let me know, and I'll do my best to provide what you need.

I look forward to your reply.

Warmly,

Stephanie

[Damien Symonds]

Hi Stephanie, can you post a few of the files here?

[LSSmith]

12 minutes ago, Damien Symonds said:

Hi Stephanie, can you post a few of the files here?

I can, tomorrow, when I'm back in front of my computer. (On half-days due to an emergency appendectomy last week; yet another factor in the time crunch.)

 

[Damien Symonds]

Have you raised this with the lab?

[LSSmith]

19 hours ago, Damien Symonds said:

Have you raised this with the lab?

Not yet. The lab's time zone is one hour behind mine, and my daily allotted work time was eaten up with finding and applying the holistic "solution", and sending the redone images off to be printed. Calling the lab is on my "To Do" list.

That being said, I tend to lean towards possibilities where my methodology is at fault. Miller is a highly-respected and widely-used lab, here, in the States. Of the two parties involved in this transaction, it is far more likely that I'm doing something wrong.

 

 

20 hours ago, Damien Symonds said:

Hi Stephanie, can you post a few of the files here?

I sat down to prep files for posting, and realized that the usual protocol for posting images (say, as in the RAW class) may not be what you are looking for. Could you please provide me with the specifics of what you'd like to see? (Ex: Screenshot of CR2 file; 100% crop; JPG that produced "grey results"; JPG with "holistic solution" applied, etc.) Thank you.

[Damien Symonds]

3 hours ago, LSSmith said:

Miller is a highly-respected

No they're bloody not.  They print way too warm, I NEVER recommend anybody use them.

3 hours ago, LSSmith said:

I sat down to prep files for posting, and realized that the usual protocol for posting images (say, as in the RAW class) may not be what you are looking for. Could you please provide me with the specifics of what you'd like to see? (Ex: Screenshot of CR2 file; 100% crop; JPG that produced "grey results"; JPG with "holistic solution" applied, etc.) Thank you.

The exact jpeg files you sent to the lab.

[LSSmith]

19 hours ago, Damien Symonds said:

The exact jpeg files you sent to the lab.

I've attached representative samples out of the group of 30 images. If you need more, please let me know.

These are the ones that came back from the lab with the "grey film overlay".

[LSSmith]

These are the same representative files, after I added a "Brightness/Color" adjustment layer (the "holistic solution"). These returned from the lab with a much better, although, not perfect appearance.

No, I haven't contacted the lab, yet. Yes, it's still on my "To Do" list.

[Damien Symonds]

Stephanie, for the love of God, POST YOUR PHOTOS IN CLASS BEFORE PRINTING THEM!!!  These are completely awful.

However, that's beside the point.  Your prints and screen should match each other, period.  Both the good ones and the awful ones - ALL of them should match.

On 10/2/2018 at 10:28 PM, LSSmith said:

I had thought that my monitor was properly calibrated. (Yes, I used test prints and the slight differences were tolerable.)

When you say "test prints" - were they your own photos?  Or were they literally test prints that the lab provided?

[LSSmith]

14 hours ago, Damien Symonds said:

Your prints and screen should match each other, period. 

I agree, which is why I posted my questions/concerns, here, a few days ago.

Unfortunately, I think that there may be an additional problem. This morning, when I opened up this thread, the images, in this thread, looked yellow and unnatural on my monitor's screen. They did not look this way, yesterday, when I posted them. As I have no way of seeing what the images look like on your screen, I now wonder if what you're seeing is what I'm seeing, now. 

I tested the hypothesis above (that you're seeing something that did not exist on my screen yesterday). I went into Bridge and pulled up both copies (original and 2nd version) to see if they looked as unnatural and garish as what is posted in this thread. Interestingly, they do not. I put together screen shots with 100% crops showing the difference, and have included them in this post.

I hope, although I have very little reason to, that you will be able to see the difference between the image as viewed on my monitor in Bridge/Photoshop, and how the image appears in this thread.

P.S. - I've just added the images to this thread. While I can see the difference in colors/intensity between the "image as seen on my monitor" and the "image as seen on this thread", neither set of images accurately show the level of color saturation (far less garish) that I'm seeing on my monitor in Bridge/Photoshop. I honestly don't know what to do at this point. It seems that I simply cannot trust what I'm seeing on my monitor is going to be faithfully reproduced. *very frustrated*

14 hours ago, Damien Symonds said:

When you say "test prints" - were they your own photos?  Or were they literally test prints that the lab provided?

They were my images, sent to the lab per your instructions, as listed in the Monitor Calibration for XRite Color Munki.

My recollection of the first round of submissions is that there was a significant difference between the onscreen and print versions. At that time, I went back and tested the white balance options, decided that D50 looked like it would get closer results (a better match between online and print), re-edited the images under the new calibration, and resubmitted them for printing. As the results did provide a closer match, it seemed that I had resolved the problem.

[LSSmith]

Has anyone here encountered the following?: You open up Bridge (I use the latest version in Adobe CC) and all of the tab and menu text is blurry?

It doesn't happen all of the time, and I can't seem to detect a pattern for when it does happen. (Doesn't necessarily happen directly after an update; doesn't look normal for 5 sessions and then goes blurry on the 6th session; etc.)

It does not seem to be a critical issue. I'm just curious as to why it's happening at all.

I've attached images in the hopes that whoever comments will be able to literally see what I'm seeing. *crossing fingers*

Thanks!

[Damien Symonds]

I have heard of this, but I haven't heard of it being random.

To start, can you do this for me?  https://www.damiensymonds.net/thread1.html

[Damien Symonds]

I wonder if this is related, somehow, to the random blurriness of Bridge that you mentioned in the other thread?  It all seems like screen weirdness, you know?

So, can you tell me the details of your screen?

[LSSmith]

4 hours ago, Damien Symonds said:

To start, can you do this for me?  https://www.damiensymonds.net/thread1.html

I have a PC laptop running Windows 10 and Photoshop CC. It is over 2 years old, and has 16GB of RAM. Its hard drive has 572GB free out of 913GB. The last time I shut down was earlier today. I have never run a cleanup program.

NB: For clarification, laptop is a little bit over 2 years old, if I remember the purchase date correctly. If I R-click on the Photoshop icon in the Adobe CC panel, it says that the version is 19.1.6. As for the cleanup program, I may have been operating under the assumption that "disk de-fragging" and "disk clean-up" were the same thing, and that Windows 10 automagically took care of the de-fragging. I'm now willing to bet money that you are going to correct my assumptions.

In any case, it's my turn to turn into a pumpkin, and I'll read your response/take further action, tomorrow.

G'night!

[LSSmith]

5 hours ago, Damien Symonds said:

I wonder if this is related, somehow, to the random blurriness of Bridge that you mentioned in the other thread?  It all seems like screen weirdness, you know?

So, can you tell me the details of your screen?

I forgot to answer this one before I answered the blurry screen thread.

I use an HP Z Book as my CPU with an HDMI connection to my monitor/screen. The screen is an HP DreamColor Z24x Professional Display, purchased at the same time as the laptop, so it's nominally a little bit older than 2 years. It sits atop my desk in my office/closet. No one is allowed to touch it, and I leave it where it is, as it is, to provide consistent perspective for editing.

The editing/retouching of photos is the sole reason for its purchase.

I recalibrate it monthly, when the ColorMunki tells me to.

Calibrating took a bit to figure out, because I initially failed to realize that I had to go into the laptop's settings, select the correct screen (monitor, not laptop), and then calibrate. The calibration profile turns the screen from a lovely cool set of tones with a blinding white to a loathsome warm tone, which I tolerate because that was what seemed to give the best match between online and printed images.

I'm not sure what other info you might need. If I haven't provided what you need, please let me know, and I'll attend to it in the morning, when I'm back at my desk.

Thanks!

[Damien Symonds]

I definitely encourage you to run Glary Utilities.  It's very thorough and very reliable.

Is it just the laptop screen you're using?  Or do you have a desktop screen plugged into it?

[LSSmith]

Just now, Damien Symonds said:

I definitely encourage you to run Glary Utilities.  It's very thorough and very reliable.

Is it just the laptop screen you're using?  Or do you have a desktop screen plugged into it?

I have a proper monitor. I've listed its info in the grey images thread.

 

[Damien Symonds]

3 minutes ago, LSSmith said:

that was what seemed to give the best match between online and printed images.

Just to check - this was a typo, right?  You mean "between Photoshop and printed images".

[Damien Symonds]

I just read it, thanks.  What kind of cable connects the laptop to the screen?

[LSSmith]

Just now, Damien Symonds said:

Just to check - this was a typo, right?  You mean "between Photoshop and printed images".

Yes. I should have said images on my screen in Photoshop. *tired brain syndrome*

[Damien Symonds]

I've merged the two threads, because I can't help thinking they're related.

[LSSmith]

On 10/5/2018 at 9:24 PM, Damien Symonds said:

I just read it, thanks.  What kind of cable connects the laptop to the screen?

HDMI cable. I think that's what it's called. Lemme check.

 

On 10/5/2018 at 9:28 PM, Damien Symonds said:

I've merged the two threads, because I can't help thinking they're related.

That seems reasonable. Thank you for letting me know.

[LSSmith]

As a semi-non-sequitor, as you're not a fan of Miller Labs, would you please share which labs you do like?

[LSSmith]

16 minutes ago, LSSmith said:

HDMI cable. I think that's what it's called. Lemme check.

Just checked the manual to make certain. It is definitely an HDMI cable connecting the laptop and the monitor.

And it turns out that I purchased both the laptop and the monitor at the very end of December 2015.

Edited October 8, 2018 by LSSmith
New information to add

[LSSmith]

Off to the surgeon for my appendectomy follow up. I'll check for thread updates later today.