Color on NikonD850

[Michelle Pena]

I've had my D850 for over a year now and I'm not loving the colors. I loved the colors on the D750 a lot better. I'm also finding the camera is contrasty.

I guess my question is , is there anything I can do setting wise to improve color? I shoot kelvin between-5000 to 5600k, is this too cool for this camera? and the green /magenta bar I have set at 0.0.

It seems to be ok for outdoor images but my indoor images with a strobe geez colors are so dull and having to do more editing than I did with the d750. I even recalibrated my iMac to make sure it needed to be calibrated but my iMac pretty stays the same when calibrated. Any suggestions? Not sure you can help if you don't shoot indoor strobe?

Thanks! 

[Damien Symonds]

Have you explored these?

[Michelle Pena]

I do like the Adobe color for the D850 it seems to work better than the standard. Forget the other option vivid was just horrible. The standard did work for the D750 though.

This camera I can't seem to understand it and I'm about to give up and go back to my D750. The D850 is defiantly a beast.

[Damien Symonds]

Don't worry, once you join the Raw Class and learn how to edit, you'll love it.

[Michelle Pena]

Yes, I've been needing to take this class for a while now, a long while now lol! 

 

 

[Brian]

Each camera sensor has its own personality. The D750 sensor will produce different colors than a D850. I totally get what you mean though, the contrasty that you are talking about is the result of all those MP. It’s way more detail than a D750 so things don’t blend together. 

As Damien suggested, I use the Adobe Color Profiles A LOT. The only thing I can suggest is using Auto WB #1 or try AWB #2 and taking Damien’s Classes, especially the Raw Class. Otherwise, you are looking at a new camera body and since Mirrorless is all the rage, I don’t think Nikon will be releasing any new DSLRs soon.

One more thing, lens choice also affects colors. I have found that Tamron Lenses tend to add Red and Sigma tends to add a bit of Yellow. Nikon OEM Glass tends to stay neutral. 

[Michelle Pena]

I will try the auto WB and see how that works out and take the Raw Class.I mostly use Sigma lenses and I wish it would give my images a warmer feel but I get a lot of cool tones.

When using the AWB as you suggested , I don't need to set the green/magenta bar correct? 

[Michelle Pena]

Damien I signed up for the Raw class but while reading the the first section I remembered I took the bridge class , signed up again for the $6 refresher and I can't access it ? I guess it's past that time? I'd like to go over Bridge again as you mention before the Raw class. Thanks! 

[Michelle Pena]

ok never mind ! I clicked on the wrong link.

[Brian]

On 1/18/2022 at 5:31 PM, Michelle Pena said:

I don't need to set the green/magenta bar correct? 

Stop trying to screw around with fine-tuning your WB. Leave it alone. Unless you are in a studio, with VERY GOOD AND CONSISTENT LIGHTS, THAT DO NOT MOVE, and I'm NOT talking about Alien Bees, you really shouldn't mess with that WB Fine-Tune.

Keep this in mind as well:

Quote

YOUR CAMERA'S LCD IS A LYING AND CHEATING WHORE WHO WILL SELL YOU DOWN THE RIVER IF GIVEN THE CHANCE!!

The LCD LIES. Do not judge anything else other than composition when looking at your camera's LCD. In fact, I would even set the camera to "Neutral" in Picture Control and set the brightness of the Display to -1, this way it will look closer to the Raw File that you import into ACR.

[Michelle Pena]

I do shoot studio and I use a flashpoint Xplor strobe ad400 pro. No Alien bees and no Eisenstein either.

This light is also a cool tone color.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Michelle Pena
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[Brian]

Well, if the camera never moves and your lights stay the same, then you could fiddle with the WB settings. 
 

But the WB will still be off when importing into ACR, no matter what you do. Why? Adobe’s Camera Raw and the Nikon D850 interpretation of White Balance is different. ACR/Lightroom takes an educated guess of what the file says. Since WB is covered in the Raw Class, that’s all I will say on the matter. 

[Michelle Pena]

I understand this, even the whole brightness is changed one it's loaded on to ACR. I can have a brighter picture in camera and once its upload to ACR its way darker than what I shot it as. 

[Brian]

3 hours ago, Michelle Pena said:

I can have a brighter picture in camera and once its upload to ACR its way darker than what I shot it as. 

Again, your camera's LCD lies. The image you see on the Camera's LCD is the JPEG PREVIEW THAT IS EMBEDDED WITHIN THE RAW FILE AND NOT THE RAW FILE ITSELF!!!

This is why I'm recommending you change the Picture Control on your Camera to NEUTRAL. This way the image you see on the LCD will look more like the Raw file does in ACR. The other thing I want you to do is adjust your LCD's Brightness to -1 or -2. Even though you are NOT supposed to judge exposure via the LCD brightness, for the very reason you are having an issue; it's a hard habit to break, people often look at the LCD and think their photo is properly exposed. Often, it is not. You need to pay attention to your Histogram(s) to properly judge exposure. 

Why?

Because again, the whole JPEG Preview thing. It's not the Raw image on the Camera LCD. You could set the camera to something stupid like +5 or whatever and the image on the LCD will be nice and bright. But it does not affect the Raw file, that stuff is ignored by Adobe's Software. You could set the LCD to +100 and shoot everything to 1/4000th of a second at f/22 at ISO 64. (I'm being silly here, never do this. ) The point is, the image on the LCD will look properly exposed because the display is so bright, but be completely dark when imported into ACR. This is the same exact reason why people's prints come out too dark, it's because their computer's display is too bright! It's all the same BS.

Here is how you set the brightness for the LCD. I have mine at -1. You might want to try -2.

[Michelle Pena]

OK I just changed all those things. 

 

[Michelle Pena]

I am having a heck of time editing in the auto WB and Neutral  I am not happy with this image and I have to deliver these in two weeks. Any suggestions. I see green on my end? 

[Michelle Pena]

This image I added some red and minus 2 yellows in ACR and it looks a tad better. The auto WB 2 was used at the time thinking it would keep my image warm since I have trouble with cool images. Wonder if maybe since these turned out too yellow if I should use the Auto NORM? 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Michelle Pena

[Brian]

If AWB isn't working for you in studio, change it back. Unfortunately, I can't discuss White Balance issues / fixes beyond what I've already said, since those topics are directly covered in the Raw Class.

The Neutral Setting is just for the Rear Display. This way the image you see on the LCD looks more like a Raw / "Blah" image in ACR.

Try Auto NORM and see what happens. What lights are you using again? What color temp are the bulbs?

[Michelle Pena]

I have a Xplor ad400 pro, it’s very much like the Godox ad 400 pro . I don’t know the color temp on this one but it’s definitely a lot cooler than the Eienstein, the Eienstein strobe was crazy overly saturated. Very yellow blah the d850 didn’t like it lol between the high contrast of the d850 and the saturated Eienstein was just plain awful. 
 

I’ll try auto norm and with Neutral or standard  

[Brian]

Well, that’s the thing with flash photography, your camera’s metering system is completely worthless. Why? Because the light from the strobe isn’t present until you click the shutter. The WB values are compiled using the ambient light, and then suddenly change when the light from the flash hits the subject, albeit very briefly.
 

That’s why I asked about what lights you use, the better lights will tell you what to expect for color temperature with their bulbs and what value you need to set your camera to when using their products. There is a difference between a $2000 light like a ProPhoto and a $200 light like a Alien Bee. Even a light like a Godoy AD400 might have issues, but photographers seem to like them and I even thought about getting one at some point.

Cheaper lights, like Alien Bees, are all over the place and the color temp can change on you from shot to shot. This is the result of the power output of the Bee, it changes especially if you change the light power. It usually takes 3-4 flashes from the Bee to get it to settle down if you change something. 
 

You might want to utilize a Gray Card more often and use the WB eye dropper tool. Granted, it’s not 100% fool proof, but you will need to fiddle and figure out what works for you or at the very least create a starting point for your WB in post. Again, this topic is covered in the Raw Class. 
 

Edit: One more thing! Adobe’s thinking of White Balance Color Temp and the Camera Manufacturer’s thinking of WB Color Temp usually are different. So even though you may set your camera to 5000K (or whatever) it may not be what Adobe perceives as “5000K.” That’s the frustrating part with WB and Adobe’s products; the Camera Manufacturers do not share the “Secret Sauce Recipe” on how the camera bodies compile WB values, so there will always be a discrepancy. 

[Michelle Pena]

Prophoto light is on my wish list. I always wondered why from one frame to the next the images looked different. One image could be cool and the next warm. I often don't change camera settings but the power of the light I do depending on a lot of things going on in the set up. 

I'm in the raw class now just trying to get past the first part of it

 

[Brian]

1 hour ago, Michelle Pena said:

I always wondered why from one frame to the next the images looked different. One image could be cool and the next warm.

It's because you are using cheap lights.

If you make a change, fire it off a few times. Also, weak batteries will screw with you as well.

If you are looking for a light and you photograph babies & kids a lot, like your sample photos above, you are looking at a 250 Watt Seconds Light, such as the Profoto B10 OCF Flash Head (250 w/s). The 500 w/s light has too much power for the fuzzy-wuzzy sleeping baby photos. The cool part with the B10 is you can control them via your smart phone instead of forking out the $450 or so for the Hot Shoe TTL Controller.